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Stock 2JZ-GTE head max psi & revs ?
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2jzmkiv



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:30 pm    Post subject: Stock 2JZ-GTE head max psi & revs ? Reply with quote

Hello,

A recent thing that has been really bothering me i have a borg warner s475 turbo 1.10 a/r twinscroll t4 and it has ~75mm compressor inducer wheel how much boost and rpm can the bone stock 2jz gte head springs valves retainers etc.. can handle would 30 psi and 7k be too much for the stock head ? Some people suggest that i go to supraforums but this is beyond asking colour codes for your supras next paintjob so i rather ask it here because theres a lot of experienced people on this forum.

Thanks in advance.
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joe90



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 382
Location: under the car

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine as a whole, it'll keep on making more power until something breaks.
If it's tuned properly , it will make more power than if it's not tuned properly.


The weakest link is usually the head gasket that unseals, that applies to any engine.
Detonation will unseal it quicker. Detonation will also kill the pistons, conrods and bearings.
Too much timing with E85 does the same.

OK so what's the limit?
Look it up on youtube?

With a good quality japper it's usually more than 300HP per litre stock.
So long as you can avoid detonation / have a good safe tune.
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2jzmkiv



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apparently a guy blew his valves off the seats with his 66mm turbo at 30 psi near 7k revs so its not about the power actually its about the airflow to the engine and pressure on a stock 2jz im guessing springs are no:1 to go i will build by 2jz eventually thats why i got a 75mm turbo but until that time i dont want to blow something.
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4SFED4



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2jzmkiv wrote:
apparently a guy blew his valves off the seats with his 66mm turbo at 30 psi near 7k revs so its not about the power actually its about the airflow to the engine and pressure on a stock 2jz im guessing springs are no:1 to go i will build by 2jz eventually thats why i got a 75mm turbo but until that time i dont want to blow something.


You come with a question, get a response and proceed to school Joe on pressure v. power?!

You aren't looking for Supraforums you are looking for Hondatech! (grin)
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Buzzard



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 221

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have run a stock 2JZ with Garrett Gt35R at 24psi made 540hp on a Dyno Dynamics machine (not in shootout mode). 6500 would be enough for your straight six rocket.
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2jzmkiv



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4SFED4 wrote:
2jzmkiv wrote:
apparently a guy blew his valves off the seats with his 66mm turbo at 30 psi near 7k revs so its not about the power actually its about the airflow to the engine and pressure on a stock 2jz im guessing springs are no:1 to go i will build by 2jz eventually thats why i got a 75mm turbo but until that time i dont want to blow something.


You come with a question, get a response and proceed to school Joe on pressure v. power?!

You aren't looking for Supraforums you are looking for Hondatech! (grin)


no no no im not schooling anyone on anything i was simply stating that MY QUESTION was about power and pressure im sorry if i did not pick my words carefully english is not my main language.
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2jzmkiv



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzzard wrote:
I have run a stock 2JZ with Garrett Gt35R at 24psi made 540hp on a Dyno Dynamics machine (not in shootout mode). 6500 would be enough for your straight six rocket.


i have a friend that runs garret gtx3582r and he pushes 538whp at 20psi redlining at 7500rpms so far he did not have any issues with it but gtx35 has 62mm compressor inducer wheel im guessing with my turbo and 75mm inducer wheel the air that my turbo can flow would be higher so all im asking is someone with experience to estimate a safe boost level for my setup Smile
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Buzzard



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 221

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2jzmkiv wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
I have run a stock 2JZ with Garrett Gt35R at 24psi made 540hp on a Dyno Dynamics machine (not in shootout mode). 6500 would be enough for your straight six rocket.


i have a friend that runs garret gtx3582r and he pushes 538whp at 20psi redlining at 7500rpms so far he did not have any issues with it but gtx35 has 62mm compressor inducer wheel im guessing with my turbo and 75mm inducer wheel the air that my turbo can flow would be higher so all im asking is someone with experience to estimate a safe boost level for my setup Smile


What is it that you want?
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joe90



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 382
Location: under the car

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2jzmkiv wrote:
apparently a guy blew his valves off the seats with his 66mm turbo at 30 psi near 7k revs so its not about the power actually its about the airflow to the engine and pressure on a stock 2jz im guessing springs are no:1 to go i will build by 2jz eventually thats why i got a 75mm turbo but until that time i dont want to blow something.


Apparently?

It's about how well it's tuned and maintained.
Maybe the cambelt let go and pistons hit valves.

In that case it's got nothing to do with power but about preventitive maintenance.
But a proper post mortem shows up the real problems....Apparently.
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2jzmkiv



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i cannot see what im doing wrong here i will try and put it as simply as i can A guy on supraforums claims that he blew his valves off their seats BECAUSE he ran 30 psi on a 66mm turbo all im asking is someone to make an estimate on how much safe boost i can push on a 75mm turbo without blowing anything in a bone stock 2jz i am worried that same thing will happen to me is 75mm turbo pushing 30psi too much for stock 2jz valves valve springs etc. ? what is the safe boost limit this is my question and it is pretty simple and i cant think i can be more clear than this i dont know if im misusing words here or disrespecting anyone it is not my intention to do so and if i caused a misunderstanding im sorry all i did was to ask a simple question im not judging anyone or testing peoples knowledge or trying to "school" anyone what have i said to cause this i really do not understand.
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rrrobert



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 92
Location: oxford , england.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2jzmkiv wrote:
i cannot see what im doing wrong here i will try and put it as simply as i can A guy on supraforums claims that he blew his valves off their seats BECAUSE he ran 30 psi on a 66mm turbo all im asking is someone to make an estimate on how much safe boost i can push on a 75mm turbo without blowing anything in a bone stock 2jz i am worried that same thing will happen to me is 75mm turbo pushing 30psi too much for stock 2jz valves valve springs etc. ? what is the safe boost limit this is my question and it is pretty simple and i cant think i can be more clear than this i dont know if im misusing words here or disrespecting anyone it is not my intention to do so and if i caused a misunderstanding im sorry all i did was to ask a simple question im not judging anyone or testing peoples knowledge or trying to "school" anyone what have i said to cause this i really do not understand.





you seem to me to be communicating really well,2jzmkiv,especially if its not your first language .


i am surprised someone has not simply said , with those engine parts you can go to xxx bhp and boost ,before xxx happens .

the tone of the forum has changed a lot .
_________________
just try it
http://www.youtube.com/user/legrandphromage
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joe90



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 382
Location: under the car

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's zero relationship between boost and valves and valve springs.
Maybe RPMs and valve springs but that's not the question.

I wouldn't take too much notice of what kids post on the ricer forums either.

Maybe you could explain what it means when you "blow the valves off their seats"?
It just doesn't happen?

You could even go into the maths, PSI, spring loads, hooks law etc but it's pointless.
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keithmac



Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Posts: 233

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could start by pressurising a closed inlet and see how much pressure it will hold? (would have thought at least double what you plan on running..).

I run 30psi through my GTO-TT with no issues (other than mixing suitable fuel).

"Blowing valves open" just sounds like bull sh1t to be honest..

As has been mentioned valve float could be an issure at higher rpm on stock springs (basically the spring is not strong enough to shut the valve fully quickly enough).
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2jzmkiv



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rrrobert wrote:
2jzmkiv wrote:
i cannot see what im doing wrong here i will try and put it as simply as i can A guy on supraforums claims that he blew his valves off their seats BECAUSE he ran 30 psi on a 66mm turbo all im asking is someone to make an estimate on how much safe boost i can push on a 75mm turbo without blowing anything in a bone stock 2jz i am worried that same thing will happen to me is 75mm turbo pushing 30psi too much for stock 2jz valves valve springs etc. ? what is the safe boost limit this is my question and it is pretty simple and i cant think i can be more clear than this i dont know if im misusing words here or disrespecting anyone it is not my intention to do so and if i caused a misunderstanding im sorry all i did was to ask a simple question im not judging anyone or testing peoples knowledge or trying to "school" anyone what have i said to cause this i really do not understand.





you seem to me to be communicating really well,2jzmkiv,especially if its not your first language .


i am surprised someone has not simply said , with those engine parts you can go to xxx bhp and boost ,before xxx happens .

the tone of the forum has changed a lot .


well i think christmas came early because you sir just nailed it that is EXACTLY what i wanted just someone to simply say what you just said thank you for your understanding Smile


Last edited by 2jzmkiv on Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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2jzmkiv



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe90 wrote:
There's zero relationship between boost and valves and valve springs.
Maybe RPMs and valve springs but that's not the question.

I wouldn't take too much notice of what kids post on the ricer forums either.

Maybe you could explain what it means when you "blow the valves off their seats"?
It just doesn't happen?

You could even go into the maths, PSI, spring loads, hooks law etc but it's pointless.


first of all thanks for the info that was the part i did not get i struggled to find a relationship between psi and springs well im gessing the stock springs can handle 7k but under heavy load around 30psi i have never thought they were related so since you point out that there is absolutely no relation between springs and boost pressure would it be "OKAY" to run 30 psi on a stock but properly maintained longblock 2jz ?
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joe90



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 382
Location: under the car

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest problem with a lot of the "ricer" car forums is that they're sponsored.
That means that the people paying for them need to make a few sales.

So what they do is start making up problems that don't exist in order to get the sales.

Most of the commonly bought aftermarket parts are inferior to the factory parts that they're replacing.

So take a valve spring as an example.
What is the factory spec for the load when it's closed?
How about when it's open at factory full lift?
How about the load with a higher lift cam?

What about aftermarket springs?
No specs?
Just.....buy me, buy me , buy me now.

Factory springs.........you can put washers under them.....it's one of the oldest performance tricks in the book but nobody ever makes any money out of it.
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Turboivo



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2jzmkiv wrote:
joe90 wrote:
There's zero relationship between boost and valves and valve springs.
Maybe RPMs and valve springs but that's not the question.

I wouldn't take too much notice of what kids post on the ricer forums either.

Maybe you could explain what it means when you "blow the valves off their seats"?
It just doesn't happen?

You could even go into the maths, PSI, spring loads, hooks law etc but it's pointless.


first of all thanks for the info that was the part i did not get i struggled to find a relationship between psi and springs well im gessing the stock springs can handle 7k but under heavy load around 30psi i have never thought they were related so since you point out that there is absolutely no relation between springs and boost pressure would it be "OKAY" to run 30 psi on a stock but properly maintained longblock 2jz ?


2jzmkiv,
I see you're struggling to get answers on your simple questions, but as I told you before, the EFI101 forum is not a BS forum. Joe90 is correct. No one wants to insult or humiliate you. What is "Safe boost"? If you want "Safe" then keep it low. I guess you need not just "safe" but the safe maximum boost. Then it all depends on many factors like engine condition and maintenance, engine cooling, charge cooling, the tune/calibration, the fuel...etc. Even the dyno used could change the power figures and how the boost hits. Then again, the safe limit is more up to you. If someone has blew his stock 2jz at .... 35psi, that doesn't mean 30psi is safe for your engine.
The tone of the forum is the same since the last 8-9 years. Imho the people here just avoid to give baseless and mislead boost or power forecasts.
I hope that gives you some answers.
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2jzmkiv



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thank you and joe and i really did understand you i am glad that this forum exists and im also glad that its not a bullshit aftermarket parts advertising forum bless you people thanks all of you guys for valuable information it really did help to make my mind up. Cheers!
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Grocerius Maximus



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 300
Location: McKinney TX USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe90 wrote:
There's zero relationship between boost and valves and valve springs.


W-R-O-N-G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

valve area * pressure = force
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joe90



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 382
Location: under the car

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK....maths.........work it out.

Where's the examples?





Or let's put it another way.
An exhaust valve........can't blow open.
An intake valve......yes it can.

The only time that's going to happen is when the pressure differential is at it's greatest.
So ....if it did happen to blow open....that would be fantastic because you'd get more air and fuel into the cylinder when it's needed......AND ....you'd make more power.

So.........
It's a load of shyte...........



like lots of things

Ricers....?
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