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Can we do a thread on "Advanced Motec Log Reading"
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:22 pm    Post subject: Can we do a thread on "Advanced Motec Log Reading" Reply with quote

Just wondering if there are other people out there reading data logs? I literally spend a couple of hours looking at data logs. I happen to own a new Motec 130 on a jetski and several Megasquirt MS3s that I work with.

Sharing trips and tricks....

Andy
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baselkwt



Joined: 21 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a good idea, I use i2 pro mostly.
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to use MegaLogViewer HD after exporting a CSV file out of I2.

See www.nbs-stl.com/tuning I wrote that a few years ago. Most of that applies to any system you are working on. I think most of that can be done in I2 pro, but I use MLVHD as I can open any CSV log off most any system. And I think that it's dirt cheep at around $40.

Have fun tuning.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a log off my Motec M130.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%20100%20hz.png

The spikes are the Motec sending a second pulse after the primary injector pulse.

I have no clue if all Motecs codes do this or it this is unique to the Jetski codes.

Andy
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baselkwt



Joined: 21 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That doesnt look like a motec log to me.

As for the second injection pulse, its not specific to PWCs, the other packages do this as well, if i remember correctly it is the makeup pulse for transient fuelling
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baselkwt



Joined: 21 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry i didnt read the reply before about exporting to csv.

i2 is a very powerful software, even i2 standard, I use i2 pro for everything,

it is much more than just viewing the lines from the log.
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I2 pro appears to be very capable but it also very expensive for the non professional. I find MegaLogViewerHD to be a bargain and adaptable to almost any data log. Not just limited to Motec logs.

I have a good friend that may chine in here, that can handle almost any question regarding I2. He is a Motec dealer and engine builder/tuner.

Lots of this has to do with what you are used to as a viewer. It all gets back to the same answer.

Did you get a chance to scan thru the webpage I gave a link to above? The real tuning fun starts when you start to get your head around MAPxRPM vs Duty Cycle, Fuel Flow or MAF.

Andy
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baselkwt



Joined: 21 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, read through it.

one thing did catch my eye, about there being a bump @5800rpm in the maf value, map*rpm*ve (and compensating for air temp) might be a better indicator for airmass,

you could get really tricky and compensate for exhaust backpressure or baro in the formula, but I haven't tried,

I dont normally try to see time based airmass, I typically work out airmass per cycle and compare to the displacement for the engine Im working on,

it gets pretty messy when you factor AFR into the formula so you have to get fancy with the filters. I find if the tune is dialed in close enough, the lambda aim channel works really well. (usually not the case, especially on a OEM tune)

its really useful if you can input your injector data to get more accurate values and work from fuel mass, which is derived from fuel volume.

neat for working out nitrous fuelling.

only problem is nitrous jets are normally measured in hp, and they arent terribly accurate, so you end up with a suggestion instead of a perfect number to use.

but im working on a solution for that... Very Happy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you tuning? What sort of vehicle is this motor in. I would love to see a data log same time.

I am generally tuning race jetskis with Motec. Most everything else is road race or autocross normally running Megasquirt.

Andy
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baselkwt



Joined: 21 Jul 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tune all sorts,

used to do alot of supras,
more recently evos
I've done some logging on OEM ecus with motec loggers
I also do some drag racing, mostly motorcycles

I am now working on my first M1 car (ive done m1 on sea doos...but i hated working on jet skis, too many problems with water..leaky shaft seals)

Its a USDM evo9 with m150, currently running GPR package, (moving to something a little different soon)

Got it running, had some minor issues that motec has solved in the next package version, that hasnt been released yet, but ive seen it and played with in m1 tune, its a huge improvement on the December 2014 version, but because its still in testing I cannot put it on a GPR ecu.

The PWC packages on M1 a little lacking, theres lots of really nice features on the GPA and GPR packages

I see everything I work on as an opportunity to learn something new.

Ill look through my logs and look for some of the more interesting ones.

but I dont have pro analysis on any ecu Ive worked on, I have a liscence in i2 pro that allows opening standard logs
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you try plotting a new field MAPxRPM vs Dutycycle and see what you get?

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a couple of screen shots of doing throttle response testing.

The AFR has to be taken with a grain of salt as o2 sensors are a little sketchy on sudden/big changes in air flow.

In this shot, I am launching from a dead stop.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/AE%20DE%20Testing%2001.png

The white line on the 4th trace is RPM per sec that peaks out at 13500. From idle to 7000 RPM happened in .46 sec. Idle to pump hooked up happened in 1.3 sec.

In the second trace, I am running buoys.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/AE%20DE%20Testing%2002.png

This is data off a 1500 cc, blown jetski.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just found something that I never expected. I plotted MAPxRPM vs Ignition Timing. This is what popped up.

As a side note, I converted the Motec original TPS based timing to MAP based timing, but this is generally their timing curve.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Ignition%20Timing%20Logic.png

Andy
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:27 am    Post subject: Engine Combustion Quality Reply with quote

The end result of logging IS better engine performance when that information used.
SURE, fuel is one tuning aspect though easy to get right.
IGNITION is another aspect of quality tuning though often not understood by the ability of log use to record the NEEDED information.

THIS will be MY goal as one who could contribute to dimension for the thread.

FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT is the measurement of Crankshaft Acceleration with index to specific cylinder.
Second is measurement of spark duration with respect to RPM, often overlooked.

EXAMPLE : Please log Coil Dwell/MAP/Dwell Duty Cycle with your named coil.
Example : Please log Spark Duration/RPM/MAP
Example : Please log Crankshaft Acceleration/RPM/MAP

These items, if reported, will allow me to recommend tuning adjustments for your case, or all others.

Lance
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a log off my ski after applying the first autotune from MegalogviewerHD



Andy


Last edited by whittlebeast on Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pantera

I found a couple of fields what appeared to be a dwell type thing. We will see on the next log.

What are we looking for?

I calculate crank acceleration in MLV. I commonly get accel rates in the range of 16000 RPM/Sec on a throttle stab from idle in water. Out of the water, I can get in the 30000 RPM/Sec range.
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my 5 basic trace views I have come up with. Depending what I am looking for......

Ignition. Looking for detonation and any resulting timing being pulled.



Fueling.



Steady state running. Looking for a bouncing AFR, Timing or VE.



Brake and trim control.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%20Std%20View%20Brake%20Trim.png

And Temperature

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%20Std%20View%20Temperature.png

Andy
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Logger Help Reply with quote

SURE, knowing what MAT, MAP, RPM, AFR, TPS, etc. values at song is important.
Many here know how these values effect engine performance.
My work here, in this thread, is to state other logged values extremely important AND often overlooked.

EXAMPLE : Knock Detection using crankshaft acceleration measurement with a 60-2 TW. This measurement also states cylinder/cylinder/cylinder/cylinder BMEP.
The ability to know coil duty cycle using MOTEC software will help MANY.
The ability to operate a coil's output based on MAP or Load, thus "throttling" the coil.
The ability to log/test what is needed in the quest for "best" sparkplug gap.
The ability to log/test injector battery voltage compensation to maintain constant AFR.
The ability to state a miss-fire in a unique cylinder out of the others.

Lance
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Logger Help Reply with quote

As they say "I am all ears"

I wonder if my m130 with level 2 logging has crank acceleration at the tooth level?

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anyone that wants to to look at the data, here is a link to the original data.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/S1_%232223_20150718_185628_02.ld

and here is the same data in a CSV file at 100 hz resolution.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Water%20Test%2002%20100hz.csv
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