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New EFI build Pantera ECU
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a plan I will get on that asap I plan to get the block to the machine shop by the end of the week
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So more then likely tonight I will have the numbers for the bob weight on the rods for you and will be getting the engine block to the machine shop to get you the bore and actual deck height.

I was giving thought to the camshaft ideas you have and would like to hear the specs and reasoning with it I prefer solid flat tappet. And as far as cost for a camshaft is minimal right now as this is a fresh build.

The cam I do have is the ISKY #201535
RPM RANGE: 2400-6600
Valve lift is calculated with zero lash and rocker ratio of 1.5
INTAKE TIMING DURATION: 274 deg.
OPEN: 29 BEFORE TDC
CLOSE: 65 AFTER BDC
CAM LIFT: .357"
VALVE LIFT: .535"
VALVE LASH: .014 HOT
.016 COLD
EXHAUST TIMING DURATION: 274 deg.
OPEN: 65 BEFORE BDC
CLOSE: 29 AFTER TDC
CAM LIFT: .357"
VALVE LIFT: .535"
VALVE LASH: .016 HOT
.018 COLD
LCA:108
58 deg. of overlap

I speced out using David Vizards math for the 355 and I realize it is not an ideal LSA for the 383. Bear with me Lance I have an open mind and look forward to your knowledge here.

I also realize the added ci. makes the engine want more overlap so a smaller LSA and more duration.

I used his overlap estimator and wanted street performance for drivability now I know the increased tuning capability I will have with your ecu will let me go bigger here and still keep street manners the cam I had in the 355 set up was fine and I will switching over to a hydroboost for the brakes instead of the vacuum canister I run now.

So where do you see my overlap number being around? I was thinking in the 68-72 degrees of overlap?

Now LCA we know the AFR 195 has a 2.05 intake valve. So CID/inch of valve per cylinder to his chart. the stoke is 3.750
4.010=47.36/2.05=23.10
4.020=47.60/2.05=23.22
4.030=47.83/2.05=23.33
these values on the chart gives an optimal LCA of almost right in the center of 105 and 106 smaller number closer on the 106 side and larger toward the 105 either way almost smack in the middle.

Now Duration is just ((Overlap/2)+LCA)2

So on 105 LCA if we run between 68 and 72 overlap that puts duration around 278-282
and on a 106 LCA if we run between 68 and 72 overlap that puts duration around 280-284

Lift as much as I can get with a solid flat tappet with out sacrificing durability. As Ideal would be around .6 to .7 lift.

I have 1:5 3/8" full fulcrum but if I sell them off and purchase 1:6 which spreads the required LCA .75-1 degree so if we opted the 105 LCA like you were suggesting on the phone and ran a 1:6 ratio rocker for a closer to ideal lift do you feel it would give a measurable amount of performance increase over my current cam?
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:06 am    Post subject: Camshaft Design Reply with quote

H John, the best way to "stick" with a solid cam, always using EOS, is to fit a "mushroom" lifter.

The lobe acceleration can then be much greater.

They could be PVD coated.

You may need to machine the bottom of the block at the lifter bore to be flat.

Lance
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

453.8gr. On the big end and the total 640.9gr. The engine bore is at 4.030 exactly right now and the deck height will planed to 9.000
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok time to share some pics
Baseline car


New engine how it sits back from having the splayed caps installed along with the .030 on the cylinders. I have some more grinding to do on this block before it is completely ready for assembly.

So the fun of getting this back together is about to start as Lance is going to overbalance the crank before shipping it out to me. He is going to also supply the racetec autotec pistons for the build.
This is the Crank from Lance


Connecting Rods also supplied by Lance

and the intake that Lance was able to give me the best price on
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as fuel delivery goes I have a RCI 2191A fuel cell

Here's a pic of the billet fuel pump Lance has supplied with AN adaptors and wiring another thing I love about dealing with Lance here he has saved me from hunting don all these connectors I would need for wiring





The fuel filter that was also supplied to me at the same time.

I also had before dealing with Lance bought a regulator to use which was good for carbureted or efi pressures. According to what I have read Lance I can block that vacuum port off cause I will not need it with your ECU is that correct?

I have a set of 8 of these 39lb ford injectors to use. Ford bosch injectors are rated at 39psi so at 43.5psi they around 42lb injectors which should be close to perfect for this application might want to use a slight bit more pressure we will see when the time comes.

This will all be delivered through -08 AN push lock hose and AN fittings for both feed and return.
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And of course we will need some spark and feed back to the ecu to make this happen so here are the coils Lance also supplied for me along with the wiring harnesses

And of course the ECU is gonna need to know the engine and Intake temps so these were supplied again notice he supplied the plugs.

I purchased these separate but I have two of these kits to use for widebands to give the ecu accurate AFR one is already installed.
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:22 am    Post subject: FPR MAP Reference Reply with quote

THE FPR MAP reference question is a GOOD one for this EFI-101.

The reason is that the chosen Speedmaster ITB intake is new to my work.
The first inspection is a good one with a "feature" of a LARGE AIR BALANCE "network" incorporated into the manifold casting under the butterflies.
The area of the "port" passageway is 1/2" leading into the cast in "main chamber" that will be connected to MAP and IAC if required.
The ITB bore is 50mm, good for HP.
Linkage seems robust with "center pull" and NO flex.

I will send pictures of this feature AND the fuel injector outlet location.

The need or FPR reference is BASED on injector discharge area pressure.

THUS if in "free air" the method you have stated is correct, open with safety drain line NOT capped.
When in the manifold, below the "plates", you would need to port.

Lance
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baldur



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What coils are these?
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LS 1 gen IV coils
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lance sent me nice email earlier. It had a really nice picture of the pistons and rings I will be running! And I did not miss that pretty king bearings box.

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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some pics that Lance provided for me to show me the ports to the balancer that is under the intake that provides the MAP signal.

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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I was reading the tuning manual again just preparing for the day when I am ready to start this engine up. So I was reading about the tables and got into coil dwell.

So I just want to make sure I am understanding what dwell is and it could be effectively used in tuning to maximize spark. I also understand I am NA street compression so spark is not the hardest to keep strong in comparison to a high compression race or boost application.

So from what I understand is coil dwell is the time that the coil has to charge be for discharge to make spark. Obviously there is more time at lower rpm then at higher rpm to charge the coil per say. Also being coil per cylinder and not running a waste spark application you are also allowing more dwell time to create a stronger spark.

VBAT Dwell would compensate for a low voltage from say in a drag application a low battery or a failed alternator or even in a street application maybe a charging system struggling from a too big stereo creating excessive drain. Just trying to think up possible scenarios that might effect it off the top of my head.

MAP Dwell Feature for boost applications is awesome and makes complete sense and can see obviously on a turbo application this needing more attention spent to keep misfiring and providing a strong spark.

Now my questions are the coils you provided to me what is the optimal dwell time for them? Curious

Will the settings in the software you supplied already be close to optimal as far as these setting go? I do understand these features effect a turbo application more then mine but of course I would like to maximize spark and create the most complete burn.

How much do these settings effect a street NA engine?

More curiosity in tuning based questions here.
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Strictly Attitude



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this weekend this came in the mail along with my king racing bearings and I got to get over to my buddies shop and get some better pics for you guys of the ports and other Misc. we will start with a top shot it came with screens and the fuel rails along with the AN fittings on the end. I may replace that as the 2-90 degree and a 180-degree seems restrictive to flow on the driver side and I do not trust the hose being good for fuel that has a 10% ethanol content stainless seems like a much better idea for this. The linkage all seems nice and tight and everything seems to all in sync. I am nor sure yet what I am going to do for air filters yet.

This is where the throttle position sensor goes it came with a machined aluminum adaptor.



Again Lance included the pins and connector for wiring.

Did my best to get some pics of the ports you can see where the injector holes are by the throttle bodies the lower holes go to vacuum plenum and they are not as bad as I thought they would be but I will match the ports to my heads and clean them up.





I did get some more grinding done in the lifter valley also last night and I am almost positive this is the block the car left the factory with. Allot of work left to this but it will be worth it if there are any pics you guy want to see let me know.
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject: Ignition Coil New Design Reply with quote

The GEN-IV coils you have will work best with 3-5ms Dwell.

The main reason to "throttle" a coil is to keep it cool and thus provide longer coil/plug/wire life.

The coil output is ALSO increased by doing so.
Think of a "hot" coil, heat is a resistance increasing factor.

Thus a "throttled" coil, cool at light duty, can produce greater energy when required.

Lance
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am looking at dyno tuning options for my engine I am not very familiar with engine dynos and there capabilities. I have a shop close to me that has Stuska seems the 800hp model which is more then enough for my engine. Can an engine dyno such as the stuska produce load in order to tune. Such as hold a certain rpm then increase load? I am just working things out in my head to start to prepare for the tuning process. My main concern is I really want to be able to find MBT get a good timing table and have a good idea of my parasitic loss through my drivetrain when I put it on a chassis dyno. This is my first time tuning an efi engine. If this is not possible I will just tune on a chassis dyno. It would be real nice to have a good baseline.
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David Ferguson



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Paso Robles, CA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strictly Attitude wrote:
I am looking at dyno tuning options for my engine I am not very familiar with engine dynos and there capabilities. I have a shop close to me that has Stuska seems the 800hp model which is more then enough for my engine. Can an engine dyno such as the stuska produce load in order to tune. Such as hold a certain rpm then increase load?


Yes, an engine dyno is your friend. It can hold the load and measure the output while you dial in the MBT. Other advantages are that the environment is generally very controlled, so you can test at a fixed water & oil (and sometimes air) temperature. If you're starting from scratch, plan on a day or two on the dyno with an operator familiar with it's setup/control.

You can also break in the engine while warming it up.

The first time on an engine dyno is always an experience.
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Strictly Attitude



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Ferguson wrote:
Strictly Attitude wrote:
I am looking at dyno tuning options for my engine I am not very familiar with engine dynos and there capabilities. I have a shop close to me that has Stuska seems the 800hp model which is more then enough for my engine. Can an engine dyno such as the stuska produce load in order to tune. Such as hold a certain rpm then increase load?


Yes, an engine dyno is your friend. It can hold the load and measure the output while you dial in the MBT. Other advantages are that the environment is generally very controlled, so you can test at a fixed water & oil (and sometimes air) temperature. If you're starting from scratch, plan on a day or two on the dyno with an operator familiar with it's setup/control.

You can also break in the engine while warming it up.

The first time on an engine dyno is always an experience.

Thank you David I do look forward to this hoping to have a real productive experience I am hoping Lance has a tune to get me started pretty close to where I need to be. But take nothing for granted as we all know. I know the manual has some good tuning stradegies in it and plan to read back through Greg Banish's and Jeff Hartmans books just to keep things fresh in my mindset. I think a planned attack and a notebook will be my friend here also.
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