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Can we do a thread on "Advanced Motec Log Reading"
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anyone that want to try this with their data.....

Here is the settings file that will configure Motec M130 logs in MegaLogViewer HD

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/JetSki084%20Motec.zip

To use this file, you need to download MLVHD from https://www.efianalytics.com/MegaLogViewerHD/download/ and register it for like $40. It will run on the free version but I think you are limited to like 500 records. That gets eaten up real quick with Motec logs.

Once registered, all you do is go to <File> <Settings> <Import> and grab this settings file in this Zip file

Restart MLVHD and you see everything I see.

On the [Log Viewer Tab] is a box with [Quick Views] on the upper left. Those are the screen shots above.file


To load a Motec M130 file, it takes a few steps.

1) open I2 and then open the log
2) go to <File> <Export>
3) <Output> and choose CSV
4) pick the radio button (Include time stamp)
5) choose a Output Sample Rate. 20 is about the minimum you would want. 100 gets really big, really fast. I typically pick 50
6) And hit the [export] button
7) Name the file and send it to somewhere you can remember where you sent it

Open the file with MLVHD. It should pop right up.

Depending on your Motec package, we may need to tweak a few of the formulas. No big deal. I will be happy to help.

Have fun tuning

Andy


Last edited by whittlebeast on Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Logging Speed Reply with quote

Just a quick note Andy, a 200 Hz sample speed will show 8-9 samples at 6000 RPM OR all eight cylinders.

Lance
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lance

I happen to be dealing with a 3 cylinder 4 stroke motor. I grant you that with a V8, things happen fast at the injector level.

With the 20 min data logs that I am typically dealing with and about 125 fields that are in the log, I wind up getting like 120 meg files to load up at 100 hz, My laptop is close to it's limits.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a video I did as I popped around in MLV HD screens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnF_y1FfzA

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is how a fueling plots break down as to what the motor is doing each section is of this plot. This happens to be data off a Dynojet CMD but fuel tuning is always the same.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/CMD/AreaOfMapControl.PNG

The Red trace is where the motor is on the fuel map as you are at full throttle. The motor sweeps from the lower left to most of the way up to the upper right in about .7 sec. This stuff happens fast and as a result, the dots are relatively few. Shoot for 13 AFR thru most of this range fading to 12 on the top right

The Purple area is unique in the jetski world as as where you adjust Acceleration Enrichment (or AE as it is known as in the EFI tuning world) This happens in the 1/10s of a sec range but has everything to do with out of the hole throttle response. Aim for about 13, 14 or leaner her will be a problem. The AFR is a little questionable in this range but will give you an indication of wha direction to go.

The Blue line represents the vast majority of the cruse area where the fuel economy just running up the river with friends happens. 14 AFR on the lower left fading to about 13.5 on the upper right

The Black circle is idle. 14.5-13.5 AFR is fine

The Yellow circle is where you quickly back out of the throttle and the ski is slowing down fairly fast. 14-15.5 AFR is fine

The Green circle is the WOT range. 12.2 or so if you are in the 10-11 PSI boost range to closer to 11-11.5 AFR if you are making big boost.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what the AFR Targets look like compared to the actual AFR after hammering the ski for about 30 min.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%20Hitting%20AFR%20Targets%20Scattter.png

If you apply a filter to toss out the throttle stabs and the sudden throttle lifts where widebands have a little trouble catching up with the change is air flow, you get this.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%20Hitting%20AFR%20Targets%20Scattter%20Filtered.png

I fixed the differences in the top right of these plots later in the day. To my surprise, the motor pulled about 100 RPM more with the rich top end.

Here is the motor changing loads to check if the AFR was hitting targets in a different view.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%20Hitting%20AFR%20Targets.png

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is how I look at throttle mapping. This happens to be a jet boat so essentially, it is on a dyno all the time



On the left is the RPM VS MAP and TPS in the field. The delayed part of this is to account for timing of the DBW throttle compared to the MAP and the delay of the Wideband.

One the right, you see the power come up as a near perfect S curve as you bring on the throttle.

The throttle is very predictable and power delivery is very smooth.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pantera

Here is my ignition charge time plot. I have no clue what to do with this info.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Ignition%20Charge%20Time.png

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always wondered what really drove timing logic. Here is a series of screen shots of timing. This will mess with your head. This is all the same data sorted in different ways.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Ignition%20Timing%20Logic.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Ignition%20Timing%20LogicA.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Ignition%20Timing%20LogicB.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Ignition%20Timing%20LogicC.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Ignition%20Timing%20LogicD.png

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Ignition%20Timing%20LogicE.png

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a graphic demonstration of why a turbo motor drives so different compared to a centrifugal blower motor. On the left is the stock blower motor and on the right is the turbo. At the bottom is the throttle position and vertical is essentially power.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Blower%20vs%20Turbo%20Power%20Delivery.png

Look how the blower motor is a very "if you go to this throttle position you get that much power"

The turbo motor explodes in power at anywhere from 32 to 58% throttle.

For the record, the turbo motor is running a pressure referenced RRFPR and 950 cc injectors at 70% max Duty Cycle. The blower motor runs a 58 lb static fuel pressure on the same injectors and is at 55% DC at WOT.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this pattern in VE a couple of years ago on a race motor I was tuning at the time. A huge dip in VE at a certain RPM.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/RxpxTuning/Engine%20Speed%20vs%20Engine%20Eff.png

I never figured out at the time what I was looking at. Now two years later I was tuning my motor and check out the pattern that I got.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/VE%20LogicA.png

The RPM was about 200 higher on the race motor.

Way cool

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my AFR target table as logged by the Motec software, exported into a csv and opened with MegaLogViewer. I then rolled the data back into an AFR Target table.

I did this for a different site but I thought was cool. On the left is the Scatter Plot view and on the right is the Histogram view of the same data.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Scatter%20Plot%20to%20Histogram%20View.png

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a 150meg log file that comes right up in MegaLogViewer HD. It happens to be 50 hz data.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/GWG%2085deg%20Tune%2063%2011.8%20at%20170%2050hz.zip

If you plot

X=Engine Speed
Y=Inlet Manifold Pressure
Z=Exhaust Lambda External Limit this field from 11 AFR to 15 AFR

You get a really quick way to see the entire fuel table as seen by the o2 sensor.

Have fun tuning

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had lots of questions on other sites regarding Scatter Plots and and how do they work. Let me start with the most basic use or type of scatter plots. Let's call it "Input vs Response". I like to put the thing the driver has as a direct input on the X or horizontal axis.

In my first example, let's put Throttle (TPS in my case) on the horizontal axis. The response to this TPS input is the Position of the throttle blade (in the throttle body) or the resulting Response from the input.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%20Throttle%20Mapping.png

In this example

0% TPS at the hand feed on the X (or horizontal) axis gives 0 Throttle Blade Pct on the Y or vertical axis.

100% TPS at the hand feed on the X (or horizontal) axis gives 100 Throttle Blade Pct on the Y or vertical axis.

Now look where the two white lines cross in the field.

27.77% TPS at the hand feed on the X (or horizontal) axis gives 15.60 Throttle Blade Pct on the Y or vertical axis.

The color or Z axis in this example, is the also Throttle Blade Pct just to keep things simple.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The second type scatter plot that is very common in the EFI Tuning world has the bottom RPM and the vertical axis MAP or Manifold Absolute Pressure. Lets consider both of these axises to be basic inputs, The third axis out in the center is the Response. In this case, these are the same axises that are used for for the Volumetric Efficiency table.

The more logical things to have in the field could be AFR, O2 Voltage, Knock Retard, VE, Spark Advance, even a special calculated field you created... Anything you may want to look at. Remember that each dot in the field represents the average of every time the motor got to that exact combination of the first two axises.

Here is an example of

X=RPM (Engine Speed is what this SW calls it)
Y=MAP (Inlet Manifold Pressure is what this SW calls it)
z- AFR (Exhaust Lambda External is what this SW calls it but I configured the SW to display data in AFR, that's just me...)

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%20Typical%20Ride%20100hz.png

Andy
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David Ferguson



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Paso Robles, CA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy,

You have certainly dissected your data in many different ways, and it's been interesting to follow. When looking at data like your last chart (Engine Speed vs. Inlet Manifold Pressure, with AFR as the color channel), I wonder if you could filter your RPM data to remove the times when the engine is decelerating.

With the I2 Pro, we would create a math channel for something like "increasing RPM" and use the "Choose()" function, and return the value "invalid()" for the times when the Engine Speed was decelerating. I suspect this would filter out most of the Red (lean mixture) in your graph. If not, it might help you identify areas that need more transient fuel.
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a later test. The Sync50hz fields are offset data a record or two to better match the input with response. I also do use filters to throw out throttle stabs, throttle lifts and extreme RPM transients.

Here is data that is Synced



And the same data filtered with transients tossed out.



Here is what the Throttle Stab filter looks like

[Throttle Position+5]-[Throttle Position-5]>2

What this filter does is compare the throttle position 5 records back compared to the throttle position 5 records into the future and filters out any data when the difference is more than 2 pct.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is where I am at this point in tuning this motor. In all shots, I have the the AFR Target tables with Speed Density on the left and Alpha-N on the right.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%204D%20Tuning%20AFR%20Aim.png

In the next view, I have the Z axis as VE or Engine Efficiency in this SW

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%204D%20Tuning%20VE.png

Now when you look at the AFRs in the Z axis I get this

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%204D%20Tuning%20AFR.png

Add a few filters to throw out the transitions and you get this.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/motec/Motec%204D%20Tuning%20AFR%20Static.png

Now the question is, do I double the numbers of cells and take on fixing this in a huge MAP base Speed Density tuning table? Or do I go to what is known as 4D tuning and run both a Speed Density fuel table and an Alpha-N fueling table. I am not sure the SW version can do 4D tuning at this point.

Andy
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whittlebeast



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put together a slide for a demo I am doing. This is the slide I put together for the EFI fueling equation.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/MLVDemo/012%20EFIFuelingEquation.PNG

In red are the names for Megasquirt but the math is close for almost every system on the market that I have run into. The names tend to change a little from system to system.

Andy
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David Ferguson



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Paso Robles, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this engine is in a Personal Watercraft right? How does the exhaust exit in one of those? -- is it possible it sees variable back-pressure if it exits into the water?
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