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rotary oil injection control?

 
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:32 am    Post subject: rotary oil injection control? Reply with quote

Does anyone know if there is a oil injection controller standalone unit specifly made for the control of the oil injectors on the 13b's? Want to be able to control the oil injectors if possible.
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:40 am    Post subject: ECU-AGPOC Reply with quote

I have made/sold for many years a controller (low cost) that can drive the internal coil used inside injectors, boost controllers, camshaft phasers, VNT turbochargers, etc.

This controller has input for MAP and RPM with two channel output.
A GUI sets the levels for output through a RS-232 port.

The 13B can have a problem using some of the stock stepper motor inputs.

Your idea of using a SMALL fuel injector should work well.

What is the complete system ?

Lance
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Adam



Joined: 02 Dec 2011
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: rotary oil injection control? Reply with quote

Techsalvager wrote:
Does anyone know if there is a oil injection controller standalone unit specifly made for the control of the oil injectors on the 13b's? Want to be able to control the oil injectors if possible.


You mean the metering pump right? The 'injectors' are just a fixed nozzle and are not controlled in any way. The OMP is mechanically driven but has a stepper motor to control oil volume per rev.
Any ecu with a configurable stepper driver should be able to do it. I have only ever seen one standalone controller: http://eomp.info/
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: ECU-AGPOC Reply with quote

Pantera EFI wrote:
I have made/sold for many years a controller (low cost) that can drive the internal coil used inside injectors, boost controllers, camshaft phasers, VNT turbochargers, etc.

This controller has input for MAP and RPM with two channel output.
A GUI sets the levels for output through a RS-232 port.

The 13B can have a problem using some of the stock stepper motor inputs.

Your idea of using a SMALL fuel injector should work well.

What is the complete system ?

Lance


Interesting system Lance

I meant the oil metering pump which is a stepper motor and has a position sensor built in so whatever device controls it knows if the commanded position is actual.

I can reliabliy start a 13b bridge port from a cold with some oil external injected to bump up compression, though I don't know if trying to use this system would be able to help me do that or not. The standalone I'm using can't drive the electronic OMP, trying to find alternative ways to do that or provide oil. That or its gonna be put some oil in the gas tank
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: TTL Stepper Driver Board Reply with quote

OK, first the above 13-B Oil Pump drive board seems to be a great answer @ $140.00.

The EMS you have fitted could also do this work if equipped with an AUX input for the position sensor.
The NEED to use the GPO's "Logic Level" signal is all that is required for a Stepper Motor driver board @ $50.00.

Thus an AUX/RPM strategy could be used if your fitted EMS supports this method.

Lance
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10sec_rx7



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 459
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the stepper motor requires a normal stepper control and then has a feed back loop to ensure it is running correctly which is around 1v at closed and 5v at wide open..
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joe90



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 382
Location: under the car

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some engines control the idle speed with a stepper motor. Any ECU which can do that should also be able to control the oil injector with just a change to software. A position sensor is just a variable resistor like a TPS. The voltage out depends on what you apply to the ends as well as the postion.
I'm sure a megasquirt will have the capability of doing it.
Otherwise Jaycar do stepper motor controllers very cheap.
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10sec_rx7



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 459
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haltech is the only one i know of with specific oil meter pump control,
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adaptronic does it as well for a lower range ecu, but the car is fitted with a old TEC 3 ecu.
The idle part only works with a stepper motor, I have thought about it, but I can't use TPS because I need that for the engine control. Using TPS\MAP blend due to being bridge ported. I have to look at what GPIO's I can work with, maybe able to do something with them. Thanks all.

I have seen the eomp controller before but the website doesn't look complete and I didn't get a word back from the email off the website.
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Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:46 am    Post subject: TEC-III 13-B Oil Metering Reply with quote

Remember, I was the one who "invented" TPS/MAP Blend when I worked WITH Alex Long, RIP.
This invention was on the TEC I & II EMS.

The TEC III was engineered after I left though I believe it has an AUX input for the "stepper" position report.
Thus, as above stated, an AUX/RPM driven GPO Low Side Drive could signal a Stepper Board if a transistor was used to provide the five volt "TTL".

This should work well if the chosen stepper board can have the logic inverted.

There is a chance of finding a Stepper Board that accepts a Low Side Drive for the input signal.

The Stepper Driver Board could be made by yourself using a L6219DSA.

Lance
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Buzzard



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 221

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not accept OMP stepper control without the feedback
sensor or power up stepper reset. I am not sure pwm-stepper
wil give a reset capability but it may.Sounds like premix.
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Slides



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 145
Location: In the lab.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worth a shot to see if Jason is still making them?

http://eomp.info/?p=30

sideseal22@yahoo.com

http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=191332
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