FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Back to site

J3 and J4 jumpers

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    EFI University Forum Index -> Pantera EFI
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: J3 and J4 jumpers Reply with quote

Run a Vr crk. sensor and a hall cam sensor. Since there are 2 jumpers in the ecu do I change one or both to VR? Engine runs with both set to VR but got me thinking that maybe one jumper is for Crk. and other for cam sensor?Been a few years since using this system and I always seemed to have a mysterious misfire under load, wonder if this could be why. Oh by the way this is an ecu-882c box. Thanks Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RootesRacer



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both jumpers have to match (VR for both or HL for both).

Where VR is Variable Reluctance and HL is Hall sensor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I just wondered since I'm using one of each VR for Crk, and a Hall sensor for the cam sync, does the ECU care that I'm inputting in 2 different ways? As I stated engine runs fine in shop but previous results always left me with a high speed misfire. This engine is run up to nearly 10,000 RPM, I can put my "blender" and MSD back on and engine runs fine so I'm sure it's not a mechanical issue. Thanks Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RootesRacer



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buzzinhalfdozen wrote:
Yes, I just wondered since I'm using one of each VR for Crk, and a Hall sensor for the cam sync, does the ECU care that I'm inputting in 2 different ways? As I stated engine runs fine in shop but previous results always left me with a high speed misfire. This engine is run up to nearly 10,000 RPM, I can put my "blender" and MSD back on and engine runs fine so I'm sure it's not a mechanical issue. Thanks Joe


Both jumpers relate ONLY to the Crank trigger input, the CAM trigger only supports Hall sensor.

Are you having misfire when the 882 is controlling normal inductive coils, or was it with an MSD ignition in parallel with the ECU trigger?

If you are having issues with a high speed misfire then consider that your dwell time is going to hit a 100% duty cycle at some RPM when you are running very high RPMs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you that answers my question, it seemed odd to have 2 jumpers for 1 input. I'll hopefully have a chance to test before our weather gets bad here. Thanks Joe sorry to answer your question while running cop coils, have disabled injectors in the past and put carb on issue still there so made me believe it's a triggering issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RootesRacer



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buzzinhalfdozen wrote:
Thank you that answers my question, it seemed odd to have 2 jumpers for 1 input. I'll hopefully have a chance to test before our weather gets bad here. Thanks Joe sorry to answer your question while running cop coils, have disabled injectors in the past and put carb on issue still there so made me believe it's a triggering issue.

There are 2 jumpers becuase the circuitry needed to differentiate between VR and Hall inputs are totally incompatible.
VR signals can reach over 100vac, and need directed into a conditioning amplifier. The Hall input is a 0 to 5vdc signal and needs directed to a protected schmitt trigger. Each circuit then needs directed to the processor, hence 2 sets of jumpers.

I still am unclear as to what your ignition configuration is.

Are you running MSD? A distributor with single inductive type coil, or individual coils?
If MSD or other ignition box, what triggers it?

What is the ECU trigger (wheel type and count ETC)?

Jarrid
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jarrid, I'm running 60-2 tooth crk. wheel with a vr pickup of course, I'm using a modified dist. with a 90's chevy cam pos. sensor mounted to it. 6 inductive coils triggered by the ecu no MSD involvement, 6, 75lb injectors. Needless to say this is a 6 cyl. engine. As I've said if I put my old MSD 7al ign. box that's been modfied for the V-6 odd fire arrangement, and my carb on I have no issues. However I've had mysterious misfires while running the COP set up for some odd reason. Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RootesRacer



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK is the sensor in the dizzy a VR or Hall?

Boost requires higher dwell (or use of the load dwell multiplier), whats your boost, base dwell and multiplier function right now?

If you remove the CAM sensor, does the misfire go away?

If you run with the PC connected, can you get it to misfire, and if so, does WDBG change from 59 to another value? Such would indicate that the trigger decode got an erroneous signal from the crank trigger.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hall sensor in dizzy, can't run without cam sync unless I run waste spark method which is not desireable on this app. cam overlap is large hence misfire at start up wants to make int. manifold fly. No boost on this engine, have internal datalogger but need refresher course on how to run this. Really wasn't very happy with this feature as it seems like it was a pain to set up to record a run. By the way this is a drag race application. Rules disallow having laptop in vehicle during run. Thanks for your interest. Joe Run .050 air gap on crk. sensor tried less and more with same result.Sorry didn't answer question well can never get misfire to occur unless under load ie. making a run.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RootesRacer



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To solve the misfire issue, we either get to guess and hope we resolve it or have the laptop connected to let it tell us what happened.

The internal logging doesnt store the WDBG information so its not going to be able to help.

If we have to guess, lets assume that there is electromagnetic interferance that is corrupting the trigger wheel signal.

The trigger lead needs to be 2 wires with a shield around them.
The shielding should be terminated ONLY at the ECU at the shield ground pin.

You also need to be sure that the VR sensor polarity is correct as if its wrong, the zero crossing edge will be on the "soft" portion of the VR sinusoid output.
Sensor polarity can be determined by connecting a scope to the VR sensor leads and verifying that the high slope VR crossing is negative going and the "soft" zero crossing slope is on the positive going.

You also need to be sure that little if any of the sensor leads are unshielded, this includes the VR sensor itself.

The VR lead should be short as possible and NOT be routed past coils, injectors and alternators as their magnetic fields can induce signal to the VR trigger input.

Never route ANY input with, past or even near coil, IAC, GPO or injector outputs. The electrostatic field can couple high energy signals from these outputs into the inputs, which can cause any number of problems.

Similar rules apply to the CAM sensor, though to a smaller extent.

The CAM input signal needs to complete (negative going edge) before the trigger missing tooth section begins.

Run dwell times ONLY high enough to give reliable spark, excessive dwell causes massive EMI and shortens coil life.

Run ONLY resistor plugs.

Run ONLY resistor coil wires, never solid core.

Do not run excessive plug gaps as this can create EMI.

ECU, injectors and coils should EACH have their own power feed and each should have its OWN relay, with direct connection to the battery+ terminal.

The ECU black power lead should go straight back to the battery- terminal with a heavy gauge wire (4 to 8 AWG).

If possible take a dyno run a moderate to full load and take a log from the ECU with the laptop.
If your breakup is tuning related this will show the effect on coil dwell, ignition timing or injection pulse width.


Hope this is helpful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jarrid, would it be possible for you to post or email me a scope pattern depicting correct and incorrect patterns of the VR sensor? fordracers@aol.com. Thank you Joe. I have a crk wdg of 59 cam dbg of 107 sound correct?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Pantera EFI : Software Scope Reply with quote

Hi Joe, the newer GUI has a "scope" for crankshaft target wheel measurement.

Will you use this method ?

Lance
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Lance,still need to send out my ECU for update been busy trying to prepare for winter here. I recieved the "flash" via email but as of yet have been unable to load it to ECU. It does not go to list for upload for some reason. Man wish I had computer training in school. Gonna get Jacque to help me try to load after I exhaust all other means. Did get Logman up and running so did make headway. Thanks Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Lance can you explain this "scope" for target wheel measurement? Keeps count of trigger events? Monitors wheel speed? Combination of both? Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Bench Tested ECU-882 Reply with quote

Hi Joe, received your box, tested the box, found a PROBLEM with your changed to VR jumper position.

Your engine would NEVER run correctly, vibration would cause a "miss-fire" created from intermittent crank signal input to your ECU.

The "fix" is simple, I cleaned the contacts.

My next step is to run for 24 hrs on the test bench.

Lance
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll assume you're talking about the pins on the board? Well I'm happy to hear you saw a problem, I'll send you my second unit after I get this one back and check out the upgrades. Would you care to fill me in on this "scope" function, and don't want to sound stupider than I am but what's GUI? Thanks Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pantera EFI



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: So. California

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:31 am    Post subject: Pantera EFI : Test RUN OK Reply with quote

Hi Joe, the term "GUI" Graphical User Interface is software the one would load onto the PC, Laptop, Net Book.

When this GUI is viewed, the user has information about the operation of his unit AND in many cases he may be able to make changes in unit operation.

Lance
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soooo. does that mean I need to update my laptop? As I recall you sent me a CD update a few years ago.Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buzzinhalfdozen



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Lance , how you makin' on my ECU? Been looking for it has it been sent out? Thanks Joe. Oh yeah care to expand on that "scope" capability?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    EFI University Forum Index -> Pantera EFI All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

©2007 EFI University
Website designed and maintained by 3LizardsMedia.com