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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 428
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Bugermass wrote: | | Tomak wrote: | The Pro Efi unit sounds ok, but seems to offer nothing many other ECU's don't already have.
I spoke privately with certain people that would prefer to remain un-named, and for whatever reason felt Pro EFI was on the wrong track for whatever reason, yet the new AEM Infinity showed at least some promise. I didn't dig for details, I don't see Pro EFI ever taking a significant part of the market from the other available choices, so it's not important to me.
I project my mainstays for my particular market will remain factory ECU re-programming, BS3 on serious drag cars, some Fast, Some Accel, tons of Haltech etc.
I don't know. If a customer shows up with a ProEFI, I'll give her a go for sure.
What is odd is that at PRI, I found certain reputable tuners backing and contributing to AEM's development rather than jumping on board ProEFI who already supports the applications in question. AEM series 2 was junk though, so I hope this Infinity is at least half as good as the hype. |
If you really looked into the system, I think you'll find its significantly ahead of most of the systems you named. There is ALOT of underlying strategy going on in the ECU that makes it better than most.
AEM is a big name company with great marketing. The infinity looks to be a promising ECU. ProEFI has no where near the marketing power of AEM. But I have introduced ProEFI to 5 tuners in the last year alone, and all of them now currently use and sell the ECU.
Download the user software from the website and REALLY look through it and see what all it can do. There is so much there, if it doesn't take you at least an hour to look through it then you missed stuff lol..
Show me a sub $800 ecu that can do flex fuel, fuel pressure feedback, closed loop O2, closed loop boost control with dual solenoids and Co2, back pressure compensation, DBW, variable cam, 4 stages of nitrous with bottle pressure feedback, time based launch control (rpm limit and ignition retard based), closed loop anti lag, fault management..
It may not be the BADDEST ecu out there, but it is the most comprehensive and feature packed ecu in its price range hands down. |
its under a grand?
but holy crap... Are the harnesses gold plated?
_________________
www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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Bugermass
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:33 am Post subject: |
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The Pro48 is under $800 yes. The harnesses are very high quality and a lot of man hours to build, also its very expensive to buy some of the factory connectors. U don't have to buy a plug n play harness though, u do offer standard lead harnesses as well as a plun and pin kit so u can build your own custom harness. A lot of the plung n play kits integrate with the factory CAN buss and the ProEFI uses a lot of the factory data for various functions. For example on the E46 M3 kit, they use the cruise controll buttons to allow u to cycle through 5 different boost maps, launch limiters and targte launch boost pressure. Another button on the steering wheel is used for sdcramble boost, and all wheel speed data comes directly from the abs module through can.
Sorry typing on my phone may be a bit sketchy. |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 428
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Bugermass wrote: | The Pro48 is under $800 yes. The harnesses are very high quality and a lot of man hours to build, also its very expensive to buy some of the factory connectors. U don't have to buy a plug n play harness though, u do offer standard lead harnesses as well as a plun and pin kit so u can build your own custom harness. A lot of the plung n play kits integrate with the factory CAN buss and the ProEFI uses a lot of the factory data for various functions. For example on the E46 M3 kit, they use the cruise controll buttons to allow u to cycle through 5 different boost maps, launch limiters and targte launch boost pressure. Another button on the steering wheel is used for sdcramble boost, and all wheel speed data comes directly from the abs module through can.
Sorry typing on my phone may be a bit sketchy. |
You work for Pro EFI?? Being it's -30 here, I would be interested in flying down and having someone demo the stuff for me, and maybe becoming a dealer/authorized tuner if I like what I see.
Even the short harness is crazy expensive. $300?? and $750 (same cost as ecu, for the universal long ?? Yikes.
_________________
www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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Turboivo
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 671
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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You better get some cash with you:
http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7468
Actually I like what Jason offer but adding all AEM sensors etc.. price is high again! May be if just 48 ECU had 6 injector channels instead of 4 and traction control(nonCAN based)... may be?
Last edited by Turboivo on Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stevieturbo
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 845
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| gbaker wrote: | | For sale is a brand new ProEFI 128 Dealer Setup. The dealer EMS, among other options, allows you to do live changes to the ECU instead of reflashing, key off, etc. |
So a lower level of software doesnt even allow live changes to the ecu ? Surely that can't be right for a modern system ?
As for license dongles etc. They are a bloody pain in the hole. Seriously, why do some manufacturers do that ?
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LS1, V7 YSi 
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 428
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Turboivo wrote: | You better get some cash with you:
http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7468
Actually I like what Jason offer but adding all AEM sensors etc.. price is high again! May be if just 48 ECU had 6 injector channels instead of 4 and traction control(nonCAN based)... may be? |
wow!
_________________
www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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PQatPIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Bugermass wrote: | | Show me a sub $800 ecu that can do.... |
Universal truth is that you get what you pay for. It has been that way since Adam and Eve, and it will be that way long after us.
If somebody is selling lot of stuff/features cheap, quality is not up there. Have never seen, never installed and never tuned this product but it seems to be too good to be true.
So, what's the real deal here? |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 428
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| stevieturbo wrote: |
| gbaker wrote: | | For sale is a brand new ProEFI 128 Dealer Setup. The dealer EMS, among other options, allows you to do live changes to the ECU instead of reflashing, key off, etc. |
So a lower level of software doesnt even allow live changes to the ecu ? Surely that can't be right for a modern system ?
As for license dongles etc. They are a bloody pain in the hole. Seriously, why do some manufacturers do that ? |
I hate them. Accel and sct both have em n I am always losing them lol
_________________
www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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Turboivo
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 671
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: |
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A strange thing I found is that almost half of the listed ProEfi dealers don't have this ECU advertised/listed on their own websites or webshops!? This is may be a question of negligence but its fact. I saw John Reed is also a dealer but there is nothing about ProEfi on his website.
Another fact is that when I downloaded the ProEfi software and started to browse through the menues I found that my laptop is not up to the task to see the graphics. You definitely gonna need more powerfull pc. Also IMHO it could be done more for the help menues. You could have some difficulties if you're not a trained dealer. |
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Bugermass
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Tomak wrote: | | Bugermass wrote: | The Pro48 is under $800 yes. The harnesses are very high quality and a lot of man hours to build, also its very expensive to buy some of the factory connectors. U don't have to buy a plug n play harness though, u do offer standard lead harnesses as well as a plun and pin kit so u can build your own custom harness. A lot of the plung n play kits integrate with the factory CAN buss and the ProEFI uses a lot of the factory data for various functions. For example on the E46 M3 kit, they use the cruise controll buttons to allow u to cycle through 5 different boost maps, launch limiters and targte launch boost pressure. Another button on the steering wheel is used for sdcramble boost, and all wheel speed data comes directly from the abs module through can.
Sorry typing on my phone may be a bit sketchy. |
You work for Pro EFI?? Being it's -30 here, I would be interested in flying down and having someone demo the stuff for me, and maybe becoming a dealer/authorized tuner if I like what I see.
Even the short harness is crazy expensive. $300?? and $750 (same cost as ecu, for the universal long ?? Yikes. |
No I do not work directly for ProEFI, I am a ProEFI dealer and use the system in almost every application we do where we are able to select the stand alone for use. We are Haltech and AEM dealers as well, but with the value the customer gets per $$ spent, the ProEFI always ends up being the better deal for the customer. I could talk to Jason and perhaps setup somthing to demo it to you if your seriously interested.
Also, ProEFI does not user AEM sensors. They use SSI sensors (what AEM used to use) each sensor is tested on the bench at ProEFI for accuracy before being put on the shelf to sell.
Like i said, the harnesses are very high quality.. For isntance, they pins are crimp style pins, but Adam also solders each pin after its crimped to be SURE the wire will ever pull out of the pin. If you've ever made a patch harness with OEM connectors you should know its very time intensive (especially when soldering 100+ pins on both sides) and the OEM connectors get expensive especially on the higher end stuff. The plug n pin kits are like $200 and come with everything you need to build your own harness. And the ECU connectors are water tight once built.. |
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Bugermass
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| stevieturbo wrote: |
| gbaker wrote: | | For sale is a brand new ProEFI 128 Dealer Setup. The dealer EMS, among other options, allows you to do live changes to the ECU instead of reflashing, key off, etc. |
So a lower level of software doesnt even allow live changes to the ecu ? Surely that can't be right for a modern system ?
As for license dongles etc. They are a bloody pain in the hole. Seriously, why do some manufacturers do that ? |
The user software does allow live changes to the ECU. The ecu is fully tunable with the user software without having to make any offline changes. Only major setup changes are required to be to done offline. I have several customers who have their own CAN cables and make their own tweaks and changes at the track and at the mile. Your not missing anything with the user software. The dealer software is used more for development of a new platform, its not intended to be used by an end user for tuning. You only need the dongle for the dealer software. Any user can get full access to the tunable portions of the ECU with the standard user software and CAN cable. |
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Bugermass
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:40 am Post subject: |
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If you guys wanted and if its allowed on here I can put together some screen shots and descriptions of all the function to give a better idea of what all it can do and how everything works.
Also the reason the Pro48 is not listed on most dealer sites is most people OPT for the Pro128.. All the PNP applications are geared twords the 128 box. The 128 ECU has significantly more I/O..
Somone else asked about traction control on the Pro48.. The Pro48 does not have any wheel speed inputs. If you are using it on a CAN based setup you can do wheel speed over CAN. For example the 350Z with a pro48 we can capture the factory wheel speed data through the factory can bus. Same with M3, GTR, and a whole list of other vehicles. The boost and launch control functions on the Pro48 work exactly like the 128 box, the only difference is that you will have to select to do it by TIME instead of driven/non-driven speed, UNLESS you are capturing speed info from CAN. In that case it can be done by speed just like the 128 ECU. |
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APEX Speed Technology
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 726
Location: Venice, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: harnesses |
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| Quote: | | but Adam also solders each pin after its crimped |
We never do this, nor do many motorsports wiring shops. A proper, strain reliefed crimp is much more robust than a soldered joint or even a crimped and soldered joint because the solder and heat tends to make the wires brittle.
-Neel
_________________
Neel Vasavada
Apex Speed Technology
2947 S. Sepulveda Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90064
310-314-2005
www.apexspeedtech.com |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 428
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: Re: harnesses |
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| APEX Speed Technology wrote: | | Quote: | | but Adam also solders each pin after its crimped |
We never do this, nor do many motorsports wiring shops. A proper, strain reliefed crimp is much more robust than a soldered joint or even a crimped and soldered joint because the solder and heat tends to make the wires brittle.
-Neel |
proper crimp than solder is the best solution. A proper solder joint will live forever.
very few solder properly, or seem to give thought to where a soldered joint should and should not be.
_________________
www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 428
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: Re: harnesses |
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| APEX Speed Technology wrote: | | Quote: | | but Adam also solders each pin after its crimped |
We never do this, nor do many motorsports wiring shops. A proper, strain reliefed crimp is much more robust than a soldered joint or even a crimped and soldered joint because the solder and heat tends to make the wires brittle.
-Neel |
proper crimp than solder is the best solution. A proper solder joint will live forever.
very few solder properly, or seem to give thought to where a soldered joint should and should not be.
_________________
www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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Turboivo
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 671
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bugermass wrote: |
Also the reason the Pro48 is not listed on most dealer sites is most people OPT for the Pro128.. All the PNP applications are geared twords the 128 box. The 128 ECU has significantly more I/O..
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No, I meant there is nothing about ProEfi at all.
I was interested in Pro128 too. But how much for the interface cable? |
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Bugermass
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: harnesses |
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| APEX Speed Technology wrote: | | Quote: | | but Adam also solders each pin after its crimped |
We never do this, nor do many motorsports wiring shops. A proper, strain reliefed crimp is much more robust than a soldered joint or even a crimped and soldered joint because the solder and heat tends to make the wires brittle.
-Neel |
The only type of crimp I've seen that hold as good as a properly soldered connection is a Milspec 4 pin style crimp. if you know how to solder properly you won't fatigue the wire and the strength will be MUCH better than just a crimp. I think alot of people either don't know proper solder technique or just don't care to take the time to do the extra step to ensure top notch quality. |
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Bugermass
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: harnesses |
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| APEX Speed Technology wrote: | | Quote: | | but Adam also solders each pin after its crimped |
We never do this, nor do many motorsports wiring shops. A proper, strain reliefed crimp is much more robust than a soldered joint or even a crimped and soldered joint because the solder and heat tends to make the wires brittle.
-Neel |
The only type of crimp I've seen that holds as good as a properly soldered connection is a Milspec 4 pin style crimp. If you know how to solder properly you won't fatigue the wire and the strength will be MUCH better than just a crimp. I think alot of people either don't know proper solder technique or just don't care to take the time to do the extra step to ensure top notch quality. |
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Flr Power
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I use to work on aircraft Mil Spec electrical connectors all the time. I have seen other technician improperly crimp pins by using the wrong crimper settings and act as if it does not matter.
Nowadays, 99% of electrical connections on aircraft are crimped because it is faster and cheaper. The remaining solder connections are mostly emergency and or life support system.
The only solder connections I had to fix in my 20+ years experience were due to another tech not mastering soldering skill. So, you can have problems in both form but IMO solder connection is stronger. |
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Roberto Arano
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 358
Location: colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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a proper crimp is better than a bad solder
and
a proper solder is better than a bad crimp
a proper crimp with a little bit of solder only before the mechanical strain relief (very end of wire) has the advantage that in the case of a failed weather-sealing the soldered point won't allow poor contact from corrosion issues.
wicking solder up the wire or overheating the copper after the strain relief is always bad news.
be careful to remove flux residue as needed, some are very corrosive others less so.
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