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Myblackhatch
Joined: 04 Oct 2011
Posts: 51
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: Hondata all motor tune on kpro |
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So i downloaded a all motor k20 map from a friends car to have something to mess with in kpro. My question is the map shows KPA going to 190 but this is a all motor car. Im assuming kpro has a funny way of listing load. Just woundering if anyone could tell me why it goes up so high??
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sam@tdi
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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Location: London, England
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Because that's range of the standard MAP sensor, no other reason.
Hondata give you the option of viewing what it calls N/A tables or Boost tables, the boost tables display the entire table where as when set to N/A it only displays the 0-110kpa portion of the same table.
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Myblackhatch
Joined: 04 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| sam@tdi wrote: | Because that's range of the standard MAP sensor, no other reason.
Hondata give you the option of viewing what it calls N/A tables or Boost tables, the boost tables display the entire table where as when set to N/A it only displays the 0-110kpa portion of the same table. |
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was scratching my head at that one. So you wouldn't need to change the map if you ran a low amount of boost on the motor.
Is there a way to adjust the 190 to be 110 and give you more map points in the all motor section?
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El Verdugo
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Yes there is a way right click on the actual load point (x axis) and you can alter the LOAD or on the other axis adjust the RPM values to what ever you want.
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Myblackhatch
Joined: 04 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Do tuners really tune all 4 maps for each degree of cam phasing in kpro? I'm looking at all the different maps and I was woundering if the maps are really going to be completely different or are they similar with minor changes? Also if you do tune all the maps how would you go about getting the the engine to stay at Say 10 degrees the whole time your tuning that portion of the map?
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Myblackhatch
Joined: 04 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| El Verdugo wrote: | | Yes there is a way right click on the actual load point (x axis) and you can alter the LOAD or on the other axis adjust the RPM values to what ever you want. |
Thank you..
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nfn15037
Joined: 22 Dec 2005
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Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Myblackhatch wrote: | | Do tuners really tune all 4 maps for each degree of cam phasing in kpro? I'm looking at all the different maps and I was woundering if the maps are really going to be completely different or are they similar with minor changes? Also if you do tune all the maps how would you go about getting the the engine to stay at Say 10 degrees the whole time your tuning that portion of the map? |
Yup it takes some time to do it right! Many tunes I have seen clearly are not done this way. |
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xenocron
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 162
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Myblackhatch wrote: | | Do tuners really tune all 4 maps for each degree of cam phasing in kpro? I'm looking at all the different maps and I was woundering if the maps are really going to be completely different or are they similar with minor changes? Also if you do tune all the maps how would you go about getting the the engine to stay at Say 10 degrees the whole time your tuning that portion of the map? |
Yep, 26 maps in total to tune on Kpro!
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FunctionOvaForm
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Chris do you use the edit all tables option at first or do you tune each cam angle map individualy?....the more i learn about kpro the more it seems to me that a lot of tuners cut corners while using kpro....any advice when it comes to using the kpro?
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xenocron
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| FunctionOvaForm wrote: | | Chris do you use the edit all tables option at first or do you tune each cam angle map individualy?....the more i learn about kpro the more it seems to me that a lot of tuners cut corners while using kpro....any advice when it comes to using the kpro? |
There are corners to cut without sacrificing reliability or a good tune. I usually start out with something close I've tuned previous and nail down the 10,20 and 30 angles for fuel...for part throttle purposes. And then I setup to do pulls safely on all 6 angles (if clearances allow for enough advance). I optimize each angle and then make a composite map from there. Boosted cars make things more difficult...but you just have to spend the time.
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sam@tdi
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: |
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My advice would be to decide on your cam angle target tables asap and then concentrate your time on the relevant tables only.
After all the other tables will only be used in the instance of a camshaft positioning fault which will hopefully be seldom, so as long as these other tables are 90% correct and 100% safe you can relax.
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dkGoodrich dot com
Joined: 18 May 2010
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Location: Frankfort KY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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I tune all the maps,
Learn everything you can about the cam angles, it an "on the fly" adjustable motorized cam gear, learn how to tune them properly. It allows you to shift the powerband on the fly as the rpms progress. It helps if you can see what is working first hand on a dyno. I've street tuned them before, but the customer is not getting the most for their money, but on a dyno, with a good tuner, they are.
I'm always amazed at the smooth, max power everywhere graph it yields when everything is tuned properly. Boost/power comes on fast and strong and makes it all the way to redline. They truly are amazing engines. (to me atleast)
There is several writeups on how to tune them properly, best ones I found were cliff notes from a k pro seminar. Search.. search.. search 
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sam@tdi
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| dkGoodrich dot com wrote: | | I tune all the maps |
Lets quantify that statement for a second, are you saying you steady state EVERY cell for optimal performance in EVERY table, EVERY time you cal one of these?
Or are you saying that you just quickly flick through them on some sweep tests to make sure they're not horribly out?
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Last edited by sam@tdi on Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Myblackhatch
Joined: 04 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I bought the DVD from the kpro data seminar and it helps. Along with the info on the website. The cam phasing is amazing to keep power at its max, very cool stuff. Just seems insane to tune everything. Basically your tuning 6 engines for the price of one.
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MrDomino
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Myblackhatch wrote: | | I bought the DVD from the kpro data seminar and it helps. Along with the info on the website. The cam phasing is amazing to keep power at its max, very cool stuff. Just seems insane to tune everything. Basically your tuning 6 engines for the price of one. |
What DVD? I searched on the Hondata website and couldn't find a store or anything
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El Verdugo
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Call a Hondata distributor and he may be able to get one for you.
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FunctionOvaForm
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm one thing i keep thinking about is that in efi101 were taught that at peak torque the engine will consume the most fuel...so if i tune every fuel map and than go back and look at the cam angles i can theoretically find the proper cam angles by just using the cam angle that the engine is consuming the must fuel at a certain point?
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Roberto Arano
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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at a constant afr , then the cells where max fuel is delivered/required per charge will equate to max torque potential torque (assuming spark timing is correct). since tq is proportional to cylinder filling .air mass per charge.
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MrDomino
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| El Verdugo wrote: | | Call a Hondata distributor and he may be able to get one for you. |
Does the DVD have a name? Let me know. I'd rather be able to call up Hondata and tell them exactly what I want instead of "some DVD some guy on the internet bought at some seminar."
Thanks.
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El Verdugo
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| MrDomino wrote: | | El Verdugo wrote: | | Call a Hondata distributor and he may be able to get one for you. |
Does the DVD have a name? Let me know. I'd rather be able to call up Hondata and tell them exactly what I want instead of "some DVD some guy on the internet bought at some seminar."
Thanks. |
I have it at my office somewhere, let me get you the name tomorrow.
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