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Who else thinks the tuning software for MS sucks
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baldur



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When he said most of the units were on the shelf you can bet he wasn't talking about advanced users or dealers. I don't know about this one but cars vary greatly in compatibility with the system. Some will just fire up the first time you turn it over and run fine. Others will have constant trigger or power issues rendering them undrivable. Most of these can easily be resolved by the advanced users but will leave the ones with less electrical engineering expertise with no option but to throw the unit away and get something plug-and-play.
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RootesRacer



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 485
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexander wrote:
I guess this is still semi on-topic.. but I'll keep it short..

RootesRacer wrote:

Ok, then tell me where I am wrong?


The most important thing you've gotten wrong is: you can in fact charge money for GPLed software; it's such a common misunderstanding that it's in the GPL FAQ:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney

.. this is also true for many other open-source licenses (e.g. BSD).

Cheers!


Never said you cant charge for GPL'd software, the license specifically provides for this (go back and read the thread).

The issue relates to value added changes to GPL software and modification and derivative works. This is where it gets muddy from an ethical perspective.

Anyhow this has gone off topic since the issue of my topic related to unfair competition and not of plagiarism since the software itself is clearly open source.
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alexander



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 154
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must be nice never being wrong. Laughing
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alexander



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 154
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baldur wrote:

Others will have constant trigger or power issues rendering them undrivable.


This has been my one experience with an install. As a general rule (between the software and the hardware) the unit was so flakey, I told the owner that I wouldn't work on it anymore.

He then spent the next two weeks flipping every option, twiddling every setting, and couldn't make it run no matter what he tried. Without a scope, or the motivation to learn even intermediate electronics theory, he was dead in the water. In the end he got what he paid for: an assembled PCB.
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Turboivo



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys, just want to THANK YOU for the last discussion. Respect!
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LT401Vette



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that this Thread actually kicked off almost 2 years ago, so I can sure see where it is coming from, but I really think you should take a look back at what is happening over there. Eric needed to spend some more time with real life at some point, so MegaTune improvements have gone a bit stale. But the future is looking bright in other directions.

Try looking at TunerStudioMS, it is still in testing, but pretty solid. With the list of improvements planned and the steady momentum, many big dollar EFI controller manufacturers will be jealous soon. :)

http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/


Last edited by LT401Vette on Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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avenger



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll believe it when I see and test it. Soon? I've been hearing that 'bout GPIO for 2 years or more.
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baldur



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think simplicity is the key to a good tuning software. Not wizards upon wizards.
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LT401Vette



Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try it out, the basic TunerStudio is out and fully functional. It is reading the MegaTune ini files so navigation is very similar to MegaTune, but a great deal more is supported so I expect to have more enhanced ini's soon.
So as it is, I think you will find it to be a refined MegaTune. Still backward compatible with all MegaTune ini files and msq's, but now:

Tables let you multi-select like MegaLogViewer, copy paste ....
The 3D tables and Curve graphs work by keyboard or mouse.
You can open multiple dialogs simultaneously, and logging will continue
The comm is handled in a separate thread so the UI doesn't hang.
It self adjusts the comm timings for slower serial like bluetooth.
Project creation and change is simpler.
Gauge changes are saved between sessions.
...
I think you will find a lot of improvements from a core tuning standpoint.

Then there are the bells and whistles too, like the dashboard that can be edited to pretty much anything you want.
Full screen dash.

And now that all the core stuff is done.... I can start working on the cool stuff, yes some tuning wizards but also things like remote tuning & logging.
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DIYEFIorg



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FoundSoul wrote:
It's really obvious you've been out of the picture a long time as most of what you've said is inaccurate.

Come on Jerry, give the guy some credit. Yes MS2 runs engines well, but is it up to par for IO, RAM and speed? No it is not.

MS2 is a great product for what it is, and you are the only person I'd buy one from, but it is what it is, ie, not a golden egg for a penny.

Try to remember that baldur is one of the guys your business is built upon. I think he deserves a bit more credit than you appear to be giving him.

Back to arguing about MT, MTX and TunerIWantADonationNowStudio :-)

Fred.
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gunnar



Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 513
Location: Cruisin for a bruisin

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baldur wrote:
I think simplicity is the key to a good tuning software. Not wizards upon wizards.


Agreed, wizards shouldn?t be implemented at all.
rather a solid explanation of the variables you are able to set and WHY they are there.

Also I told Phil this the other day and that is long interpolation is needed
i.e beeing able to interpolate many cells at a time when you are doing a base map.

I don?t know if TunerStudio has the abilities to show the current interpolation going on in the VE table, that shows the weighing beeing used from each of the cells around where you "really" are in the table.
sort of like the dot in Autronics software.

Also the VE table should be possible to use as a direct mapping tool,
the 3d view I don?t like one bit.

I?ve used some systems and the Tuning aspect of Megasquirt / Vems is not the least bit as bad as some systems are not many things need fixing to make the tuning aspect alot better.

I/O?s is where it?s at BTW.
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TurboCamaro



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Kelowna, BC

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Megasquirt Reply with quote

I agree with the comments on the VE and associated tuning!

We did a dyno day for the Megasquirt community a while ago and while all involved were especially keen the Megasquirt people did not get involved with the guys who's cars were on the dyno and help show them how to use the tools at hand, I was quite dissappointed in that show of support. In fact the Megasquirt people just sort of disappeared before the day was out.

While I have not a whole lot of experience with the tool in showing the users how to steady state tune I was put off. Simple fundamentals like when in the VE table not being able to see the Wide Band live and when you are in the 3D VE you can see the Wide Band but have know idea where you are in the MAP as the axis are not labelled.

But in saying all of that for the audience this is directed to it fits the bill fine as for what I saw it is for the budget DIY person. Maybe I am incorrect but I do not see the majority ever stepping up or understanding the need to do a thorough steady state tune. They will get what driveability they can and put up with the rest or enjoy the journey of playing with it as they drive. Anyone else that has invested in a car will buy the equipment and time to fit the caliber of car that it may be!
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baldur



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gunnar wrote:

Agreed, wizards shouldn?t be implemented at all.
rather a solid explanation of the variables you are able to set and WHY they are there.


Although not strictly on-topic here, if anyone wants to see an example of the exact opposite of a nice, solid, simple tuning software, the AEM software is a good example. Here's some poor bloke's frustration with configuring a run of the mill 36-1 crank wheel Laughing
http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,22706.0.html
The normal way of configuring the crank trigger in that software is a wizard with a list of presets, if you have an EVO 8 you select EVO 8 engine, if you have a Supra, you select that you have a Supra, etc. If you have something not listed in the presets (not sold in America) you're faced with these truly obscure settings.
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Turboivo



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baldur wrote:
gunnar wrote:

Agreed, wizards shouldn?t be implemented at all.
rather a solid explanation of the variables you are able to set and WHY they are there.


Although not strictly on-topic here, if anyone wants to see an example of the exact opposite of a nice, solid, simple tuning software, the AEM software is a good example. Here's some poor bloke's frustration with configuring a run of the mill 36-1 crank wheel Laughing
http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,22706.0.html
The normal way of configuring the crank trigger in that software is a wizard with a list of presets, if you have an EVO 8 you select EVO 8 engine, if you have a Supra, you select that you have a Supra, etc. If you have something not listed in the presets (not sold in America) you're faced with these truly obscure settings.


Seems they share same software with OMEX and GEMS.
http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/Ecus/ecus.htm see chapt 20
http://gems.co.uk/assets/Media/downloads/manuals/EM36/EM36%20Manual.pdf? see part 2
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Matt Cramer



Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think AEM is actually a distributor / repackager of one of the two systems you named.
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baldur



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the AEM system is created by Omex. Omex is the same as Gems and Emerald.
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Boost



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emerald has a completely different software, and the hardware also looks different. I thought it was made by Dave Walker.
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baldur



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some historical connection there. At least the cal files for AEM say "EMERALD FILE" in the header.
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Gadgeroonie



Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had a go at mapping a car on ms today - I was not happy with the software that I used!
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DIYEFIorg



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gadgeroonie wrote:
i had a go at mapping a car on ms today - I was not happy with the software I used!



As much as I agree that it needs work, I think if you have real troubles using it and getting a tune in then perhaps you need a mirror, not more software? It works, it's just not very nice.
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