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Reving up from idle, delayed responce
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underpsi68



Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What 02 sensor are you running? Is it a narrow band?
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevieturbo wrote:
Those logs make no sense. The various items look totally out of sync.

By those, you're touching the throttle briefly and closing again before the engine even response. Which is impossible, unless you had some ridiculously huge plenum or something

the logs are correct unfrountaly their only about 10hz on their update rate.
And yes thats exactly whats happening, hit the throttle and can watch the car either do nothing or rpms dip until my throttle is closing, once its closing it starts going up in rpms. Exactly like you say.

Quote:
What 02 sensor are you running? Is it a narrow band?

AEM UEGO wideband, I wish I had it logging a narrow band as well as the wideband seems delayed a bit.
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Flr Power



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logging narrow band would not help you much.
How is the power on the road?
How does it feel?
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underpsi68



Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would try going to a higher rpm and start tuning there during a steady rpm/load. Than start to tune backwards (lower rpm).
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Bugermass



Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

email me that log file and your map to bugermass@yahoo.com, let me see if I can help you.
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stevieturbo



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1235
Location: Norn Iron

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techsalvager wrote:
stevieturbo wrote:
Those logs make no sense. The various items look totally out of sync.

By those, you're touching the throttle briefly and closing again before the engine even response. Which is impossible, unless you had some ridiculously huge plenum or something

the logs are correct unfrountaly their only about 10hz on their update rate.
And yes thats exactly whats happening, hit the throttle and can watch the car either do nothing or rpms dip until my throttle is closing, once its closing it starts going up in rpms. Exactly like you say.

Quote:
What 02 sensor are you running? Is it a narrow band?

AEM UEGO wideband, I wish I had it logging a narrow band as well as the wideband seems delayed a bit.


10hz is perfectly fine. But your rpm is continually rising long after the throttle is closed.
That simply is not possible unless the inlet tract between intake valve and throttle plate is enormous. Those logs cannot be in sync.
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevieturbo wrote:
But your rpm is continually rising long after the throttle is closed.
That simply is not possible unless the inlet tract between intake valve and throttle plate is enormous.

Thats exactly how it works, maybe I'll get a video showing it off in person.
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Link
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stevieturbo



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1235
Location: Norn Iron

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. Without a scale on those logs it was hard to see.

The rpm increase is smaller than you made it sound, and the graph looked.

Do what I already said earlier..

Ensure the car is mapped properly first for normal load sites, driving, steady state whatever

Turn OFF all transients and try opening the throttle.

Chances are it may not be that bad. Even toy with the sites around 100kpa and low rpm where it goes when you stab the throttle to see if it helps. No huge increases though, just small ones.

Then turn them back on add fuel to the transients as required to get sharp response. Starting with all transient fuelling at ZERO.

Easy as that really.

And your inlet tract does not mean the IC plumbing. I mean only the tract from throttle plate to intake valve which is totally standard on yours it seems.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0
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Flr Power



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say it revs after you release throttle, it is simply because of the engine/flywheel mass that is still in acceleration when you are releasing the throttle. You cannot expect the engine to decelerate as fast a very light engine rotating mass.

It just need fine tuning. Do what stevieturbo said.
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did some acceleration enrichment tuning. Indeed I got to feel better at tip in but log wise i don't think 10hz is the best for telling how much better it is. it feels a lot better after adding some more PW for tps based accell enrichment.
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Bugermass



Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes to transient throttle, the FEEL is more important than trying to chase data in a log. If it FEELs good then its probably in a good spot.
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stevieturbo



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1235
Location: Norn Iron

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugermass wrote:
When it comes to transient throttle, the FEEL is more important than trying to chase data in a log. If it FEELs good then its probably in a good spot.


100%, and pretty much ignore any lambda displays.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0
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Johnny_9



Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-tune for AFRs before you adj the tip-ins

Your Idle timing should not be at MBT, so when you go off-idle at MBT, you can feel the torque.

Spend an hour viewing the FREE motec webinars on tuning idle
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sam@tdi



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 751
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's two points here, 1- sluggish response and 2- throttle closed engine speed increase.

1- is likely just that the tuning in that area is inaccurate

2- is more interesting...

In your logs the relationship between MAP and throttle angle looks disconnected during and directly after the throttle plate closing, I'm assuming that the throttle position sensor is accurately cal'd here. The plenum volume on the B6/BP engine is relatively small so if I had to guess then I'd say that your logs suggest that the main throttle plate isn't the only thing allowing air mass into your plenum, idle valve position perhaps?

Maybe as an experiment you should physically block off the idle stab valve air feed channel then create enough of an air bypass with the mechanical throttle stop in order to maintain a basic idle, then try your throttle blip experiment again and get another log.
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I did the logs and video the only item allowing air in other then the throttle body is the idle screw, I have blocked off the stock pwm idle valve and decided to tune in my ecu without having to worry about the idle valve messing around.

I turned off pwm closed loop idle so only the idle screw allows air in.
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Roberto Arano



Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 503
Location: colorado

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Sam is suggesting that you may have an unplanned air leak.
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so I should decrease my idle spark around 10 degrees instead of running 20 degrees

Also I will check around for possible extra leaks.
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Flr Power



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That motor sounds like the injection timing is also way off. Just double check it.
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Techsalvager



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Leesburg, GA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flr Power wrote:
That motor sounds like the injection timing is also way off. Just double check it.

untimed injection
batch 2 fuel injectors per channel

Also I didn't see a webinar about tuning idle at motec
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