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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 431
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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 Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: Best low cost ECU for 4 cylinder? |
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Out of the Haltech Sprint 500, the AEM EMS4, and the MegaSquirt 3x or whatever (the expanded sequential box).... which is "best"? And Why?
I haven't used any of them personally, did tune the MS3 with expander....
Are there any other low cost options?
Or does someone have a good reason not to use any of them?
Thanks.
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www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
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C. Ludwig
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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We've had very good results with the Haltech Sprint 500 and RE. That said, it falls short of the options offered by the EMS4 at a similar price. I've been wanting to use an EMS4 since they were announced, but the opportunities have not come up.
What else is even available in the sub-$1k range?
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Haltech, AEM, Apexi PFC Sales, Installation, Tuning
Custom Harness Solutions
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10sec_rx7
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 379
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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i have done heaps of the sprint 500's and they are tops, every car we have fitted them to has just worked and worked well,
the haltech software is very easy to use and you cant really go to wrong with them, |
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RootesRacer
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 461
Location: Arvada, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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What kind of features were you hoping to get and for what price point.
I know of a new ECU coming out that probably gives all those a run for their money. |
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PQatPIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| I've had good results with Omex 600 and KMS MD25. Omex also has a decent data aqcuisition with decent software. |
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Wolf_Tm250
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 196
Location: Parma - Italy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| RootesRacer wrote: | What kind of features were you hoping to get and for what price point.
I know of a new ECU coming out that probably gives all those a run for their money. |
Interested in a budget ecu for a turbo 4 cyl as well, with vvti control, sequential injection and cop control.
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TM enduro 250 2s.[55](2s is better than 4s)
Toyota Celica Gt-Four ST205 [588.25Nm@4957rpm]
EFI 101 + Advanced classes |
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Hic
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 152
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Vipec V44 will do all that you listed. |
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Wolf_Tm250
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 196
Location: Parma - Italy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Hic wrote: | | Vipec V44 will do all that you listed. |
Hi Hic,
yep I know v44 would be good... but iirc a bit too expensive compared to other options with same features:
won't the Haltech Sprint 1000 be cheaper?
Or the Link G4 maybe?
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TM enduro 250 2s.[55](2s is better than 4s)
Toyota Celica Gt-Four ST205 [588.25Nm@4957rpm]
EFI 101 + Advanced classes |
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4SFED4
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| If you want a tv or a tablet or a smart phone there are plenty of sites you can go to for a detailed line up of specs and features. Too bad there isn't a site like that for performance ecu's. I imagine the market is just too small. |
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RootesRacer
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 461
Location: Arvada, Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Wolf_Tm250 wrote: | | RootesRacer wrote: | What kind of features were you hoping to get and for what price point.
I know of a new ECU coming out that probably gives all those a run for their money. |
Interested in a budget ecu for a turbo 4 cyl as well, with vvti control, sequential injection and cop control. |
You need to be more specific then that.
What is the budget for the ECU? Obviously you will get more features for more money.
Does it need on board ignitors or external ignitor drive signals?
Does it need a wideband controller in unit?
What does it take for cam control for your app?
Need 4 wire stepper IAC control?
How many GPOs and for what purpose/current level?
What injectors must it drive?
Any other features it needs (two step control. antilag ETC)?
Does it need knock det?
Is there a size constraint?
Anything I may have left out. |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 431
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I'm interested in the most features under $800.
_________________
www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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RootesRacer
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 461
Location: Arvada, Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Tomak wrote: | | I'm interested in the most features under $800. |
Any show stopper features you must have?
Like I said in the previous post, a definition of what it needs to control is helpful.
You can buy a Megasquirt unit of some type for well under $800, but will it be able to do all you need?
Does the AEM or the Haltech have all the features you need, and does it come in for under $800 in the configuration that you need? |
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Matt Cramer
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Best low cost ECU for 4 cylinder? |
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| Tomak wrote: | Out of the Haltech Sprint 500, the AEM EMS4, and the MegaSquirt 3x or whatever (the expanded sequential box).... which is "best"? And Why?
I haven't used any of them personally, did tune the MS3 with expander....
Are there any other low cost options?
Or does someone have a good reason not to use any of them?
Thanks. |
Some thoughts on the MS3X, as it's the one I know the best. (I may be biased a bit, but I'll try not to omit anything on it.)
Compared to the EMS4 and Sprint 500, it's got a lot of I/O channels. There's a stepper IAC output, PWM idle output, tach control, five additional on/off or PWM outputs, three extra analog inputs, four on/off inputs, as well as being able to use the remaining four fuel and ignition outputs as on/off channels on a four cylinder. By comparison, after fuel and ignition, the Sprint 500 has a tach output, fan output, and two general purpose signals.
Some areas where the MS3 could use a bit of work (and, in fact, work is underway on these, just not complete yet) - Current release code will only do on/off variable valve timing; continuously variable setups will need experimental alpha code. The current knock code is fairly basic as well and needs an external conditioner. (Not sure how the AEM algorithm compares; it looks like the Sprint 500 has no knock control at all. Knock windowing and variable sensitivity on the MS3 are planned for future software/hardware updates.)
I'll admit that not everyone likes the industrial looking case and connectors on it, although I haven't seen very many cases of actual connector failure and they nearly always involved some form of wiring abuse (such as running one ground wire to 12 volts).
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APEX Speed Technology
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 726
Location: Venice, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: Budget ECUs |
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I think basing the decision on the cost of the ECU is alone is unwise. For example, the MS3 might be the cheapest, but the support community is completely different than what you'll get with a Vi-PEC. Works for some, not for others.
The Sprint 500 has a great reputation, but at the price the AEM does more and the "version 2.5" hardware seems to be a lot more robust than their older stuff.
Sure the Vi-PEC V44 is more, but at the end of the day, it does a lot more and does it all better. And some of that saves you time and money in the long run. Plus, the simple fact higher-end ECUs make more margin and that helps honest dealers put more support resources behind them, which in the end will save you money.
I can't tell you how many times a car with a low-cost ECU rolls into my shop and it takes many more hours to sort out than something that was slightly more up front. Actually, this just happened with a customer Porsche 964 turbo. The limitations of the system that was on made it take a lot longer to tune correctly than our regular setups.
-neel
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Neel Vasavada
Apex Speed Technology
2947 S. Sepulveda Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90064
310-314-2005
www.apexspeedtech.com |
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stevieturbo
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 846
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Whilst Ive never used it...would this come close ?
http://adaptronic.com.au/products/e420d.html
Although I would agree, that budget or no budget, it is better to spend a little extra on a good system to start with. It will serve you better in the long term. Unless you are 100% sure a basic ecu will be all the car ever needs
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 431
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Best low cost ECU for 4 cylinder? |
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| Matt Cramer wrote: | | Tomak wrote: | Out of the Haltech Sprint 500, the AEM EMS4, and the MegaSquirt 3x or whatever (the expanded sequential box).... which is "best"? And Why?
I haven't used any of them personally, did tune the MS3 with expander....
Are there any other low cost options?
Or does someone have a good reason not to use any of them?
Thanks. |
Some thoughts on the MS3X, as it's the one I know the best. (I may be biased a bit, but I'll try not to omit anything on it.)
Compared to the EMS4 and Sprint 500, it's got a lot of I/O channels. There's a stepper IAC output, PWM idle output, tach control, five additional on/off or PWM outputs, three extra analog inputs, four on/off inputs, as well as being able to use the remaining four fuel and ignition outputs as on/off channels on a four cylinder. By comparison, after fuel and ignition, the Sprint 500 has a tach output, fan output, and two general purpose signals.
Some areas where the MS3 could use a bit of work (and, in fact, work is underway on these, just not complete yet) - Current release code will only do on/off variable valve timing; continuously variable setups will need experimental alpha code. The current knock code is fairly basic as well and needs an external conditioner. (Not sure how the AEM algorithm compares; it looks like the Sprint 500 has no knock control at all. Knock windowing and variable sensitivity on the MS3 are planned for future software/hardware updates.)
I'll admit that not everyone likes the industrial looking case and connectors on it, although I haven't seen very many cases of actual connector failure and they nearly always involved some form of wiring abuse (such as running one ground wire to 12 volts). |
There was a time that I would not even look at Megasquirt. I have been tuning for 15years, had a dyno for 12.
Up here (Calgary Alberta, Canada), there were a couple guys involved with the megasquirt project to some degree right from the start, and even they had issues. Primarily ignition noise and all over the palce spark timing. Early on, I tried to tune a couple cars, but quickly gave up, and from then on would only offer dyno time, but no tuning for megasquirt cars.
Fast foreward to a couple months ago. Some 'local' guys were heading to Bonneville for an attempt, and they wee packing the latest megasquirt, and I am seriously thinking of trying it on my 2Jz. Really, the nearest option with equivalent channels is double the money.
Matt, do you guys have "jobber" discounts?
_________________
www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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Wolf_Tm250
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 196
Location: Parma - Italy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| RootesRacer wrote: | | Wolf_Tm250 wrote: | | RootesRacer wrote: | What kind of features were you hoping to get and for what price point.
I know of a new ECU coming out that probably gives all those a run for their money. |
Interested in a budget ecu for a turbo 4 cyl as well, with vvti control, sequential injection and cop control. |
You need to be more specific then that.
What is the budget for the ECU? Obviously you will get more features for more money. |
My goal is to find a better than Power FC ecu for 1zz engine for not much money more... so around 1500US$...
> Does it need on board ignitors or external ignitor drive signals?
On board
> Does it need a wideband controller in unit?
Not necessarily
> What does it take for cam control for your app?
It's a VVTi, but I have not the car here yet, and haven't had a look yet on wirings.
> Need 4 wire stepper IAC control?
Don't know yet, but it's not a problem if I'll have to add a 3 wire one.
> How many GPOs and for what purpose/current level?
boost control
idle control
vvti
fuel pump
warning led
> What injectors must it drive?
I can use both the low and the high impedance.
> Any other features it needs (two step control. antilag ETC)?
No
> Does it need knock det?
No
> Is there a size constraint?
No
I think that the Platinum 1000 should be the cheaper with all these features... isn't i?
Thanks
_________________
TM enduro 250 2s.[55](2s is better than 4s)
Toyota Celica Gt-Four ST205 [588.25Nm@4957rpm]
EFI 101 + Advanced classes |
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APEX Speed Technology
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 726
Location: Venice, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: ECUs |
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I think that the Platinum 1000 should be the cheaper with all these features... isn't i? |
Doesn't have igniters on board, and now you're talking a different, more expensive ECU. We were originally talking Sprint 500. Frankly, I find the Vi-PEC V44 to be a better choice for a bit cheaper than the Haltech. Not that I have anything against the Haltech; I think its a fine ECU, its just the Vi-PEC has a bit more in terms of software flexibility, available digital knock control (its optional,) and user-definable CAN.
-Neel
_________________
Neel Vasavada
Apex Speed Technology
2947 S. Sepulveda Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90064
310-314-2005
www.apexspeedtech.com |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 431
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: ECUs |
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| APEX Speed Technology wrote: | | Quote: |
I think that the Platinum 1000 should be the cheaper with all these features... isn't i? |
Doesn't have igniters on board, and now you're talking a different, more expensive ECU. We were originally talking Sprint 500. Frankly, I find the to be a better choice for a bit cheaper than the Haltech. Not that I have anything against the Haltech; I think its a fine ECU, its just the Vi-PEC has a bit more in terms of software flexibility, available digital knock control (its optional,) and user-definable CAN.
-Neel |
Gees... I haven't been keeping up.... heard Ray Hall abandoned ViPec, and they were closing shop. wow. lol.
But I gotta say, not a fan of Vipec software.
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www.Dynomotive.ca
AEM Factory Trained, Accel EMIC, Haltech Trained, Advanced GM EFI, Diablo CMR Mopar Dealer, SCT TUner - Viper/SRT10, Delta Force Dealer.
Analog DD 450
Mustang MD250 - gone but not forgotten. |
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SteveNichols
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: Cheap ECU |
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| Quote: | | Doesn't have igniters on board |
The Vi-Pec is also missing ignition drivers  still a nice piece. |
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