EFI University

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

I've spent the last year converting my drag car to Turbo/EFI and I'm ready to start it up.

Ok I've installed the 1900U into my car. This is a VW Type 1 engine. I'm using a 60-2 Trigger wheel with a GT101DC Hall effect sensor, I used the BMW/Porsche 60-2 wizard.

MSD distributor has been modified for cam signal so it's a two wire mag sensor.

Jumpers are set for Hall Effect for the Crank, High Sensitivity Mag for the Cam signal on the EMS. Initially the Cam jumper was set to Hall effect and did not get anything. Setting to High Sensistivity Mag or Mag has the same results.

I'm at the stage of verifying STAT SYNC. Now looking at the Parameters for Crank Pickup it goes on/off as I turn the engine over by hand past each tooth. The Cam Pickup just stays on. Does not go off ever. I assume this is why I cannot get STAT SYNC. What exactly am I missing?

The Cam pickup is set at TDC, the Crank Sensor is set at 2 teeth after the missing teeth @ approx 50 degrees

Another question is when I go to Mag sync options and try to change L Sense or H sense for cam it will not let me change them....they just go back to 2000 and 1900....

can someone help me on getting this initially setup so I can start it. I need to get it to a tuner before our race season starts in a few weeks. Thanks

Turboivo · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 671 Location: Bulgaria

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

Here's a link to the pic of the Crank trigger setup at TDC #1 cylinder

http://www.facebook.com/james.schuchard#!/photo.php?fbid=1688197124637&set=a.1498583384412.2065910.1228954886&theater

andre · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 18 Location: Kent, WA

Hi James, have you got this setup?
_________________
EFI-101
EFI Advanced

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

Seth Francis · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:46 am Post subject:

The throttle should allow enough air bypass to keep the engine running somewhere near 600-800 RPM (below the target idle). After you get the TB adjusted for a base idle, you can activate the idle control motor.

Tuning idle control in the AEM system is a dance from one table to the next, so it may take a few trys to get it just right.

As far as EGT, you may not have a calibration for the EGT sensor in the AEM unit yet. Have you had to input one?
_________________
EFI University Instructor
Cartune Performance

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

I realized I didn't mess with the cal table...working now I think.

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

New issue now. The car idles with good afr, @1500rpm good afr, @2000 good afr and @2500 good afr then @3000 unable to change afr, car seems to be misfiring and with fuel in the 3000 cell and above, adjusted fuel all the way to 0 and back no change. Car doesn't even die just runs crappy.

Seth Francis · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject:

Email map to info@cartuneperformance.com

Just to clarify:

60-2 tooth reluctor wheel on crankpulley using a magnetic (2 wire) pickup?
Single tooth on the cam using Hall effect?
Single coil through MSD distibutor (009 style or similar for VW?)
_________________
EFI University Instructor
Cartune Performance

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

It is:

60-2 with two wire mag sensor
MSD distributor modified reluctor (1 tooth) with the MSD sensor removed and Hall effect put in it's place
Ignition is AEM Twin Fire CDI with AEM COP

I believe it has something to do with the Crank H/L sense setting as it seems to help it when adjusted...problem is it's at it's max now. I have a new Hall effect sensor for the crank on the way to replace the mag sensor.

I'll email map later tonight.

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

Should be able to get the cal tonight...I'm taking care of some leaking fuel fittings on the fuel rails right now. But in the meantime can anyone tell me where Ign Range and Min tooth time are derived from? Here are my current settings with 60-2 and 1 cam. I thought that the Ign Range=Spark teeth/number of cylinders. That would make Ign Range 6 for my 4 cylinder. Am I correct on this? Or is it Teeth per 1/2 cycle?

And where does Tooth Time Min come from?

Options Cam/Crank Setup
Fuel Teeth 24
Spark Teeth 24
Ign Range 3.0
Tooth Time Min 500ms
Crank Alt Fire [ ]
Crank Alt Invert [ ]
Ign +1/4 Tooth [ ]
Engine Cycle = 1 Rev[ ]

Seth Francis · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject:

Ign Range = This is how many crank teeth pass in 90 degrees of crank rotation.

The 60-2 tooth wheel is tricky in the AEM setup. It ignores a bunch of teeth and basically converts it into 12 teeth per revolution or 24 teeth per engine cycle.

So, on a 4 cylinder engine, you will have 24 teeth/4=6 Ign range just like you thought.

Tooth Time Min is the smallest sample time that the ECU will use before it will allow the injectors or coil to be triggered. I think 500 is a fairly standard value. It gives the computer ample time to Sync.
_________________
EFI University Instructor
Cartune Performance

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

Well I now know whats happening. I sync the timing while turning the engine over everything is good. When the car is running as I increase rpm the timing just keeps advancing with it. It's not recognizing the missing teeth at higher rpm. The option MX sync test is set to 3%. Anything higher kills the car and won't let it start. I have a couple different sensors that should arrive today/tomorrow. If they don't help I'll start grinding the Trigger wheel and make it a 12 tooth wheel.

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

Well I put in a new hall effect sensor. Still the same results.

At idle it is 10*, as I apply throttle it advances ( I don't take it over 30*), remove throttle it returns back to 10*. It's acting like a centrifugal advance, but I don't think theres a limit to it with the exception of misfiring. Timing map is all 10*. And it doesn't make a difference if I have the Set ignition window open and locked at 10*.

I turned the engine over by hand and watched which tooth counted. It was counting on the correct tooth up till I was at BDC it counted the tooth before and at BDC, then the count was off from there.

I also thought that the cam signal was just to tell the EMS what stroke it was on, then the count gets reset after the missing teeth on the A tooth. It isn't working that way for me. The count gets reset on the cam tooth.

Seth Francis · Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:55 pm Post subject:

Sounds goofy for sure... Be sure to check the option: Pickup Delay Comp. Try adjusting it while holding the engine speed where an ignition timing value of 20 is visible (even though it should be 10). See if changing this number helps get you to 10. Most people skip over this setting or just don't know about it to begin with. Normally, this is a larger number on MAG sensors, but it sounds like it may be too high. A larger value should make the computer compensate the ign output to fire sooner (advanced) by that time amount on each event. The faster the RPM, the more advance you will have.

I really don't mind taking a look at the cal. Feel free to email it to me: info@cartuneperformance.com
_________________
EFI University Instructor
Cartune Performance

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

Found the solution to the problem. It was so simple.

Seth Francis · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject:

Forgot to plug something in? Spill it!
_________________
EFI University Instructor
Cartune Performance

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

I knew when I setup the sensors that the signal for the cam had to fall between crank signals. So I put the sensor for the crank in between teeth and lined up the cam sync. Now you would think that would be good enough. And the AEM Techs never said anything about it, just that it can be anwhere on #1 TDC compression stroke.

What I learned is the use of two parameters:

Crank tooth period = The time between crank teeth significant edges

Cam-Crank = The time between the Cam signal and the following Crank tooth Significant edge

As the rpm increased, of course both of the signal times get smaller but not exactly at the same rate as you would think. Then eventually the cam signal was crossing over a tooth throwing timing off 30*.

To remedy this I brought up the Cam-Crank and Crank tooth period parameters up while running at about 3k rpm and just tweaked the cam-crank to land at about 60* of the crank tooth period.

It cost me 1k in dyno time and 20 gal of C16 and I was racking my brain for over a month trying to figure out what was going on. Embarassed

Turboivo · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 671 Location: Bulgaria

Looks like AEM code doesn't need missing tooth (and even 60 teeth) at all to get the TDC of cyl 1. It needs rather cam signal. Is it still high resolution with 12 teeth?

thevolksman · Joined: 10 Mar 2011 Posts: 19

AEM uses three configurations based on the setup being used.

Cam sync
Crank sync
MX sync.

with 12 teeth and 1 cam I am using the Cam sync type. The cam signal is used to tell when on TDC of #1 and reset the counting of crank teeth from 0-23.

Regardless of what wheel setup you have I've read that it needs to be divisible evenly to have 10-12 teeth.

When I had a 60-2 wheel, you setup the A tooth table to ignore all but 12 teeth. So it's the same resolution from what I can tell.