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LinuxRacr
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 11
Location: DFW, Texas
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 Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Haltech E6X Erratic MAP/Boost Signal |
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Hello all,
My question is concerning the boost signal using an external GM 3BAR map sensor. I have a Mazda MP3 (with Mental Addiction 2nd Gen Turbo Kit). When looking at the gauge page, text map, and 3D maps in the Windows software, I can see that the boost signal is fluctuating back and forth, and is not steady. While viewing any of the text maps, I get jumping cells (boost reading is back and forth) While observing tuning session on a friend's car (Mazda MP3 with HiBoost Turbo Kit) with the E6X that has the 2.5 Bar INTERNAL MAP sensor, the boost signal is smooth, and steady, and does not fluctuate back and forth.
My question is if there is a way to make the boost signal steady for the external GM MAP sensor? Does anyone know of any inline pulse dampeners/restrictors that would help? I have a Defi D-Series Boost gauge, and it doesn't fluctuate like my old Cartech boost gauge did. I figure it must have some type of pulse dampener. |
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RootesRacer
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 460
Location: Arvada, Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Haltech E6X Erratic MAP/Boost Signal |
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| LinuxRacr wrote: | Hello all,
My question is concerning the boost signal using an external GM 3BAR map sensor. I have a Mazda MP3 (with Mental Addiction 2nd Gen Turbo Kit). When looking at the gauge page, text map, and 3D maps in the Windows software, I can see that the boost signal is fluctuating back and forth, and is not steady. While viewing any of the text maps, I get jumping cells (boost reading is back and forth) While observing tuning session on a friend's car (Mazda MP3 with HiBoost Turbo Kit) with the E6X that has the 2.5 Bar INTERNAL MAP sensor, the boost signal is smooth, and steady, and does not fluctuate back and forth.
My question is if there is a way to make the boost signal steady for the external GM MAP sensor? Does anyone know of any inline pulse dampeners/restrictors that would help? I have a Defi D-Series Boost gauge, and it doesn't fluctuate like my old Cartech boost gauge did. I figure it must have some type of pulse dampener. |
If your problem truly is MAP pressure pulsation, a small restrictor, near the intake, and a length of hose between the restrictor and the MAP sensor will form a low pass filter to the intake pulsations.
You can vary the restrictor orifice and the length/volume of the hose to get the signal in check, but keep in mind, ANY filtering you do do, either mechanically, electrically or in software will add lag to the signal, which can make mapping response suffer, as well as other things to be problematic. |
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LinuxRacr
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 11
Location: DFW, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a picture of where my MAP sensor is:
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RootesRacer
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 460
Location: Arvada, Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Have to make it remote then. |
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LinuxRacr
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 11
Location: DFW, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you saying I need to move it further away? |
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RootesRacer
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 460
Location: Arvada, Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I am saying that if you want to acoustically filter the manifold pulsations from your MAP sensor, you will not be running such a short hose between your manifold and your MAP sensor. |
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LinuxRacr
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 11
Location: DFW, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Any other suggestions as to how to fix this? |
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Buzzard
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:04 am Post subject: |
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It is difficult to see in the photo, however if you are taking the signal from one runner, or close to one runner can cause this problem.
Chris |
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LinuxRacr
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 11
Location: DFW, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, that's definitely from one runner. |
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stevieturbo
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 845
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: |
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All of teh above posts explain clearly what your problem is, and how to fix it.
Remotely mount it, from a take off common to all runners ( ie in the plenum ) and if further damping is required, fit a small inline restrictor to the hose.
Although even in one runner...a remotely mounted, restricted line should work fine.
_________________
LS1, V7 YSi 
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0 |
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LinuxRacr
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 11
Location: DFW, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| When you say remotely mounted, how far away are you talking about? |
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stevieturbo
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 845
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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just not directly attached to the intake.
6" would be fine...all you need really is enough for some hose and a restrictor in that hose.
Or if you wanted, you could mount it 2-3 feet away. Doesnt make much odds.
_________________
LS1, V7 YSi
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0 |
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LinuxRacr
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 11
Location: DFW, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Well the way I have it now (shown in the picture) is mounted with a loop of vac hose going into the nipple on top of the manifold. I have put some restriction in the hose. Still erratic. I probably need to move the line to another source.. |
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stevieturbo
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 845
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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What size restrictor ?....we're talikin maybe 20-30thou.
Plus the length of hose also helps damp...so even if you leave the sensor were it is...use a longer hose ( small diameter )
_________________
LS1, V7 YSi
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0 |
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Pantera EFI
Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: So. California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: RedlineWeber EFI Idle Jets |
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I use Weber idle fuel jets that I get from RedlineWeber EFI.
This is not a common problem, a fix used only in extreme cases.
The "trade-off" is poor MAP sensor response.
My normal fix for OUR EMS is the TPS/MAP Blend.
Look for a similar "object" in your GUI.
Lance |
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LinuxRacr
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 11
Location: DFW, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for your responses folks. The Webber fuel jets is the visual I needed. So what fuel jet size would the one for the optimal sized hole? |
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Pantera EFI
Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: So. California
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: Weebers Idle Jets. |
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A true Texan, Jack Dunn from Lubbock, loved his two Weebers mounted in the front of the turbos.
Believe that his Twin-Turbo Pantera was the first FAST car on the Lubbock ring.
This "Weebers" word was the method he used to describe how well the Weber DCO-50's made him feel when he drove his Pantera.
Fond memories
The size: My mehod is to start small (.040mm Idle Jet) then "drill" with my jet drills in .005mm steps.
Lance |
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bradyzq
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 122
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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How much fluctuation are you talking about here?
From the positioning of your MAP sensor, it looks like the pulsations are real, not just sensor noise.
But if the amplitude of the fluctuations is small enough that your tuning is not really affected, I'd suggest leaving it as it is.
So, how big are the fluctuations and when do they happen?
_________________
___________
Brady Moffatt
EFI U Certified
www.dynodoc.ca
http://www.facebook.com/pages/DynoDoc-Dyno-Tuning/81797401723?_fb_noscript=1
Montreal, Quebec, Canada |
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preston meyers
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:32 pm Post subject: Haltech e6X map bouncing |
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| bradyzq wrote: | How much fluctuation are you talking about here?
From the positioning of your MAP sensor, it looks like the pulsations are real, not just sensor noise.
But if the amplitude of the fluctuations is small enough that your tuning is not really affected, I'd suggest leaving it as it is.
So, how big are the fluctuations and when do they happen? |
I've had this exact same problem for quite some time. It has occured on the same car with an external GM 3bar as well as with a 1bar (Car has gone from forced induction to Naturally aspirated). I'm tapping of the end of the common plenum and there is ~3 feet of tubing connecting the sensor to the manifold. I've also tried using an .032 mig tip as a filter and it had little to no impact.
The fluctations at idle are so bad that I had to enable a 0 tps map to get it to idle decently.
It's been a very frustrating problem that is the only drawback on an otherwise great system. |
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crispeed
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Miami Fl.
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| LinuxRacr wrote: | Hello all,
My question is concerning the boost signal using an external GM 3BAR map sensor. I have a Mazda MP3 (with Mental Addiction 2nd Gen Turbo Kit). When looking at the gauge page, text map, and 3D maps in the Windows software, I can see that the boost signal is fluctuating back and forth, and is not steady. While viewing any of the text maps, I get jumping cells (boost reading is back and forth) While observing tuning session on a friend's car (Mazda MP3 with HiBoost Turbo Kit) with the E6X that has the 2.5 Bar INTERNAL MAP sensor, the boost signal is smooth, and steady, and does not fluctuate back and forth.
My question is if there is a way to make the boost signal steady for the external GM MAP sensor? Does anyone know of any inline pulse dampeners/restrictors that would help? I have a Defi D-Series Boost gauge, and it doesn't fluctuate like my old Cartech boost gauge did. I figure it must have some type of pulse dampener. |
Had the very same problem on the exact same application. Seems this motor is prone to a lot of intake pulsing. Most probable cause is that the sensor was taking it's reading from one runner. I guess tapping into the plenum should help.
The Defi gauges are stepper motor types and are not that acurate when rapid changes are occuring so that's why it might not pick up the intake pulsations.
_________________
CRISPEED 87 Rx-7 9.204@150.47mph
TRAVIESO RACING Rx-3 10.04@130.86mph ALL MOTOR
AWD MOTORSPORTS EVO8 RS 8.98@156mph E85
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SHAUN EVO9 9.75@144mph E85
MOST WANTED EVO9 9.05@157mph E85
SFT RACING MKIV SUPRA 7.84@179mph
CHARLES/RAW 2JZ S2000 7.77@194mph E98
AD TURBO 2JZ S2000 7.81@178mph E85 Drag Radial
SANDOR 2JZ 240 8.86@159mph E85
JJRBOOST S14 2JZ 7.6613@176mph E85
NEIL AUTOWORKS 8.32@172mph E85
D&D AUTO R32 SKYLINE 8.02@170mph E85
BIG DADDY PERFORMANCE SUPRA 7.60@186mph E98 |
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