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p1prodrive
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 42
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 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: the cost of a mainline awd dyno |
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as above what are the prices like compared to the Dyno Dynamics ?
cheers
Matt |
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Team Addiction
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| US cost for even 2wd would be nice as well |
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Warpspeed
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 484
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt if either Dyno supplier is silly enough to start a price war on an internet Forum.
Best to e-mail the Dyno suppliers yourself, you know who they are.
Like most things, there will be a vast range of extra cost options, so there is no such thing as a fixed price for a Dyno. |
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p1prodrive
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| understood about the dyno price as there are plenty of options |
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Warpspeed
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 484
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, best to contact the dyno guys direct, and see what they are offering. |
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Team Addiction
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Not sure where you are located but last time I checked they were only "testing waters" on US sales and were not very forthcoming when asked much more than that |
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PLP
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| When I purchased my mainline (2wd) I also priced a DD, both units where similar priced when you compare the same list of equipment supplied/requested, I just felt the mainline dyno had the better software that suited my needs |
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p1prodrive
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
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when i was at efi university they had the DD (10yr old), dynopack, mainline.
we never got to use the mainline as it was not running or set up ?
we turned it on and compared to the DD... the software looked way better to me, mind you i have not yet seen the DD up to date version to compare to the mainline. |
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awddynotodd
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 249
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| p1prodrive wrote: | when i was at efi university they had the DD (10yr old), dynopack, mainline.
we never got to use the mainline as it was not running or set up ?
we turned it on and compared to the DD... the software looked way better to me, mind you i have not yet seen the DD up to date version to compare to the mainline. |
Your best just to contact us direct and ask for a quote, there are too many variables from country to country to have a blanket one price fits all. You won't get bombarded with phone calls or emails from us.
On average we are a bit more than DD here in Oz, but in some cases a lot more due to more options being available. We tend to sell dyno's to people who appreciate and use the extra options and are not so hung up on price. |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 431
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Seems all the Aussie ones are expensive....
I got a quote for a DD AWD, and it was $107k plus options..... Mainline I bet is VERY similar.
The Mustang 500 AWD starts at only $69k, and has the HUGE advantage of having the rollers coupled.
Until the rest start coupling the rollers, I won't be interested. |
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awddynotodd
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 249
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Tomak wrote: | Seems all the Aussie ones are expensive....
I got a quote for a DD AWD, and it was $107k plus options..... Mainline I bet is VERY similar.
The Mustang 500 AWD starts at only $69k, and has the HUGE advantage of having the rollers coupled.
Until the rest start coupling the rollers, I won't be interested. |
Like anything, you get what you pay, and if you have no basis for comparison, the price may be hard to justify for green behind the ears dyno shoppers.
A quality control system doesn't need to couple front and rear beds mechanically, but will cost more, and has the flexibility of being able to be changed from FWD,RWD or AWD at the click of a mouse.
Torque Split can also be measured/checked on uncoupled AWD dyno's, which can come in handy depending on what sort of work a customer does, I have a few customers who muck around with old Subaru Liberty/Legacy's where they can easily wire in a switch (normally the handbrake switch) and change the Torque Split from 65/35 to 50/50, this would be a little difficult measure on a coupled AWD Dyno.
We do offer a motoring module if needed that can be swapped from back to front bed for 2wd vehicles to drive the dyno bed at the same speed the driven wheels are running at.
There is a market out there that buys $400 AFR meters, and a market that buys $2000 AFR meters, the same applies for Chassis/Engine Dyno's. |
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Turboivo
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 672
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Until the rest start coupling the rollers, I won't be interested. |
Interesting! Would you explain?
I saw MD has decoupled rollers. At least it looks like(if you are talking about coupling front and rear beds)In their AWD "Gladiator" they have very similar to DD and ML roller diameter as well. Don't know when MD started their "Gladiator"series dynos.
Regards!
MD Gladiator:
| Quote: | 1,250 hp peak absorption AWD
625 hp peak absorption 2WD
2,100 hp peak measurement AWD
1,000 hp peak measurement 2WD
Loading: Air-cooled eddy current power absorber
Maximum Speed: 150 mph
Inertia: 1,260 lbs (572 kg) base mechanical inertia (AWD Mode)
630 lbs (286 kg) base mechanical inertia (2WD Mode)
Controls: Pentium-based PC control system with PowerDyne PC Control Platform
Roll-around console standard
Hand Control: Wireless in-car controls available
Rolls: Precision machined & dynamically balanced
Kurled finish for superior tire traction belted for bi-directional capability.
8.575"(218mm) diameter balanced rolls
35" face length(889mm)
30" inner track width (Exceeds BAR/EPA Standards)(762mm)
100" outer track width
17.1 " roll spacing(434mm)
88.5"-141" Wheelbase accomodation
Electronic wheelbase adjustment
Drive Rollers coupled side to side to prevent damage to traction control
Frame: Heavy-duty structural steel frame
Axle Lift: Between roll lift with integrated roll lock
Axle Weight: 6,000 lbs maximum
Shipping Weight: 3,000 lbs -(dyno only)
Air Requirements: 80-100 PSI, dry, regulated, oil free
Power Requirements: 115 VAC single phase, 50-60 Hz, 15 Amps (Computer)
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 431
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| awddynotodd wrote: | | Tomak wrote: | Seems all the Aussie ones are expensive....
I got a quote for a DD AWD, and it was $107k plus options..... Mainline I bet is VERY similar.
The Mustang 500 AWD starts at only $69k, and has the HUGE advantage of having the rollers coupled.
Until the rest start coupling the rollers, I won't be interested. |
Like anything, you get what you pay, and if you have no basis for comparison, the price may be hard to justify for green behind the ears dyno shoppers.
A quality control system doesn't need to couple front and rear beds mechanically, but will cost more, and has the flexibility of being able to be changed from FWD,RWD or AWD at the click of a mouse.
Torque Split can also be measured/checked on uncoupled AWD dyno's, which can come in handy depending on what sort of work a customer does, I have a few customers who muck around with old Subaru Liberty/Legacy's where they can easily wire in a switch (normally the handbrake switch) and change the Torque Split from 65/35 to 50/50, this would be a little difficult measure on a coupled AWD Dyno.
We do offer a motoring module if needed that can be swapped from back to front bed for 2wd vehicles to drive the dyno bed at the same speed the driven wheels are running at.
There is a market out there that buys $400 AFR meters, and a market that buys $2000 AFR meters, the same applies for Chassis/Engine Dyno's. |
Nice sales pitch.... however, I can think of a couple advantages to coupled rollers, and I can't think of any advantages to non coupled.
Well...besides measuring torque split for whatever reason.....
So as good as your control system may be, the fact remains, there is no advantage over a coupled roller.
Perhaps I am green. Care to point out WHY you would want to add $12,000+ to the cost of the dyno for a second retarder and control instead of just coupling the rollers.
Last edited by Tomak on Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 431
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Turboivo wrote: | | Quote: | | Until the rest start coupling the rollers, I won't be interested. |
Interesting! Would you explain?
I saw MD has decoupled rollers. At least it looks like(if you are talking about coupling front and rear beds)In their AWD "Gladiator" they have very similar to DD and ML roller diameter as well. Don't know when MD started their "Gladiator"series dynos.
Regards!
MD Gladiator:
| Quote: | 1,250 hp peak absorption AWD
625 hp peak absorption 2WD
2,100 hp peak measurement AWD
1,000 hp peak measurement 2WD
Loading: Air-cooled eddy current power absorber
Maximum Speed: 150 mph
Inertia: 1,260 lbs (572 kg) base mechanical inertia (AWD Mode)
630 lbs (286 kg) base mechanical inertia (2WD Mode)
Controls: Pentium-based PC control system with PowerDyne PC Control Platform
Roll-around console standard
Hand Control: Wireless in-car controls available
Rolls: Precision machined & dynamically balanced
Kurled finish for superior tire traction belted for bi-directional capability.
8.575"(218mm) diameter balanced rolls
35" face length(889mm)
30" inner track width (Exceeds BAR/EPA Standards)(762mm)
100" outer track width
17.1 " roll spacing(434mm)
88.5"-141" Wheelbase accomodation
Electronic wheelbase adjustment
Drive Rollers coupled side to side to prevent damage to traction control
Frame: Heavy-duty structural steel frame
Axle Lift: Between roll lift with integrated roll lock
Axle Weight: 6,000 lbs maximum
Shipping Weight: 3,000 lbs -(dyno only)
Air Requirements: 80-100 PSI, dry, regulated, oil free
Power Requirements: 115 VAC single phase, 50-60 Hz, 15 Amps (Computer)
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The gladiator is Mustangs low end dyno they released for the crowd that likes smaller decoupled roller dyno's for whatever reason....it's Mustangs entry to take on the DD unit.
I like coupled cause it is easier on Centre diffs on most European awd vehicles like Audi, Porsche etc, it is not as critical on Subarus and some other Japanese cars, and when I did look at an Aussie AWD dyno in action, the speed was not 100% perfect front to rear despite their claims of great control, especially under low speed/high torque, and you had to manually input the torque split for proper loading front to rear.... this last point concerned me with some Euro boxes, though it probably changed now, as this was when I looked at AWD dynos 5 or 6 years ago.
Also, no matter how good the eddie current control, there are often variances in speed... probably not much worse then driving on ice, but why bother?
Also, you will occasionally have to dyno or tune a 2wd car that has speed sensors on the non driven wheels where you cant turn off the traction control. There are several of these... my most recent example was a 1991 SL500.... it had no fuse to pull, no dyno mode.... it can be defeated with a 2 hour "modification", but it would be much easier on a coupled roller awd dyno.
Also, I LOVE Mustangs real world load.... I cant speak for Mainline, but I know DD does not have this feature. With Mustang, you put in the cars weight and its "drag data", and then the dyno loads the runs based on this. So if you take as an example.... a Camaro and make a 2000 to 6000 rpm pull on the dyno, it may take 12 seconds. Take the same car on the street in the same gear on a flat road, and it will also run 12 seconds! Mustang has the usual load modes... percent, fixed, constant power, constant torque, rpm/sec, hell even %grade (climbing a hill), and road course simulation etc...
......but the Vehicles simulation loading RULES, and thus their quarter mile simulations feature is very accurate... customers LOVE running say 119.4 in the quarter on the dyno, the going to the track and running 119-120mph all day lol.
The Aussie stuff I am sure is nice, but I do not see the extra value for 50+% more cost. |
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sam@tdi
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 650
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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You guys don't know expensive until you've spoken to www.rototest.com 
Dyno's are no different in my eye's from any other scientific measuring equipment, you get what you pay for. If you're a real professional relying on this piece of equipment day in day out in order to carry out your work or research then really it's a no brainier. |
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awddynotodd
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 249
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Nice sales pitch.... however, I can think of a couple advantages to coupled rollers, and I can't think of any advantages to non coupled.Well...besides measuring torque split for whatever reason..... |
We have a lot of Skylines over here where guys fit adjustable Torque Split controllers, how are they supposed to measure it?
| Quote: | | So as good as your control system may be, the fact remains, there is no advantage over a coupled roller. |
Nor a disadvantage.
| Quote: | | Perhaps I am green. Care to point out WHY you would want to add $12,000+ to the cost of the dyno for a second retarder and control instead of just coupling the rollers. |
Because we manufacture AWD dyno's, not modified 2WD dyno's, and it's alot more than 12K, closer to 60-70K. |
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Tomak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 431
Location: •Calgary •Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| awddynotodd wrote: | | Quote: | | Nice sales pitch.... however, I can think of a couple advantages to coupled rollers, and I can't think of any advantages to non coupled.Well...besides measuring torque split for whatever reason..... |
We have a lot of Skylines over here where guys fit adjustable Torque Split controllers, how are they supposed to measure it?
| Quote: | | So as good as your control system may be, the fact remains, there is no advantage over a coupled roller. |
Nor a disadvantage.
| Quote: | | Perhaps I am green. Care to point out WHY you would want to add $12,000+ to the cost of the dyno for a second retarder and control instead of just coupling the rollers. |
Because we manufacture AWD dyno's, not modified 2WD dyno's, and it's alot more than 12K, closer to 60-70K. |
Thanks for the insight ....
I realize the disadvantages I listed are non existent (a figment of my imagination)  , and everyone (especially in North America) drives a skyline and wants to measure torque split.... 
I am not attacking your machine, from what I see/hear, they are VERY good.
But to put down another manufacturer with vague terms like "you get what you pay for" or slander such as "we manufacture AWD dynos not modified 2ws"without offering up anything as data or evidence... that's plain silly.
So far, the disadvantage of the AWD Mustang compared to the Aussie AWD dynos is "You can't measure torque split on a skyline" Of course, this is true, but I guess if skylines are your market, you can buy a Gladiator.
The disadvantages of the Aussie ones compared to Mustang are Traction control vehicles, and perfect speed control that does not lag.
Gonna have to show me another reason to spend almost double my money. |
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Turboivo
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 672
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Tomak for your input on MD. As you see there aren't so many MD users who post here. Although it looks a bit complicated for me all those belts, additional rollers... Isn't overal inertia too big and dyno graphs too smooth? How do you adjust for the different distance between front and rear wheels? Isn't their construction too big&heavy and non movable ? I know MD is very popular in US with their good 1/4 mile drag prediction and avoiding mentioned middle diff and traction control issues on AWD. Seems that's all!? I'm definitely not offensive here but think all these ESP and the other traction/gearbox... speed control issues related to ML or suppose also DD is just an very old MD advertisement story. I've seen many AWD '2006;'2007 Porsche and Audi vehicles on our local ML dyno with no issues at all and less than 1-2%@max load difference in the speed control between beds. I think a reason for that price difference could be the dyno software.
Anyway, thanks for your input and patience with my English
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Gadgeroonie
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1723
Location: UK
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awddynotodd
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 249
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Tomak wrote: | | awddynotodd wrote: | | Quote: | | Nice sales pitch.... however, I can think of a couple advantages to coupled rollers, and I can't think of any advantages to non coupled.Well...besides measuring torque split for whatever reason..... |
We have a lot of Skylines over here where guys fit adjustable Torque Split controllers, how are they supposed to measure it?
| Quote: | | So as good as your control system may be, the fact remains, there is no advantage over a coupled roller. |
Nor a disadvantage.
| Quote: | | Perhaps I am green. Care to point out WHY you would want to add $12,000+ to the cost of the dyno for a second retarder and control instead of just coupling the rollers. |
Because we manufacture AWD dyno's, not modified 2WD dyno's, and it's alot more than 12K, closer to 60-70K. |
Thanks for the insight ....
I realize the disadvantages I listed are non existent (a figment of my imagination) , and everyone (especially in North America) drives a skyline and wants to measure torque split....
I am not attacking your machine, from what I see/hear, they are VERY good.
But to put down another manufacturer with vague terms like "you get what you pay for" or slander such as "we manufacture AWD dynos not modified 2ws"without offering up anything as data or evidence... that's plain silly.
So far, the disadvantage of the AWD Mustang compared to the Aussie AWD dynos is "You can't measure torque split on a skyline" Of course, this is true, but I guess if skylines are your market, you can buy a Gladiator.
The disadvantages of the Aussie ones compared to Mustang are Traction control vehicles, and perfect speed control that does not lag.
Gonna have to show me another reason to spend almost double my money. |
I don't see why I have to show you anything, you seem to be quite happy with what you've got, maybe you should start a new thread and tell us more about how happy you are with your machine and it's benefits. |
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